Mediamonkey alternative

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Expand view Topic review: Mediamonkey alternative

Re: Mediamonkey alternative

by meljmartin » Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:21 pm

Actually there are alternatives... some pretty good.
Foobar is fantastic for managing your library, but to unleash it's power you need a higher level of technical expertise than to use MM effectively. I does have a smaller footprint too, which I like. MusicBee is very similar to MM with some real nice playback features. MM is more flexible and MM 4.1 (Gold) adds significant features that MusicBee lacks.
One small thing about MusicBee which worries me is that developer is doing so much development for free (I figure he must have a daytime job ) that he may burn out or get fed up.
MM, being a business, has a better chance of being there long-term. I like MM gold best overall and it really doesn't cost that much, especially if you are patient and wait for one of the occasional promotions. If you are a penniless techie, go for foobar. If you are just penniless (or cheap ;-)) go with MusicBee.

Re: Mediamonkey alternative

by nohitter151 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:07 am

MrSinatra wrote: ps. btw, I asked if you actually know any apple users, not if you are one. I know hundreds, and I have never met one who uses anything but the default iOS player.
Fine, but I'm sure you know many (as I do) that transcode their music from higher quality tracks on the PC to lower quality for their portable device.

Re: Mediamonkey alternative

by MrSinatra » Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:03 am

u can discount the obvious and / or personal exp as "speculation," but I feel no need to prove it. its just patently obvious most iOS users do NOT dl a 3rd party music player, just as its obvious most iTunes users don't modify iTunes to play FLAC.

you disagree, I get it. I don't really think there is anything more to say.

ps. btw, I asked if you actually know any apple users, not if you are one. I know hundreds, and I have never met one who uses anything but the default iOS player.

Re: Mediamonkey alternative

by nohitter151 » Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:20 pm

MrSinatra wrote: the point is that those users DON'T do it. that is just beyond obvious, or do u contend otherwise?
That is speculation. You have no source for this.
MrSinatra wrote: its MUCH easier to play ALAC on android, b/c android users use lots of different music players, including a large amount of 3rd party players, which is totally unlike iOS users. just look at the DLs of say the winamp app for android. out of the box android music players are hardly uniform, the way they are in iOS. the vast majority of iOS users just stick with the native iOS player.
You have no source for this. A search for "music player" on the iOS app store yields over 2200 results. A search for "flac" on the iOS app store yields over 70 results.
nohitter151 wrote:do you actually know any apple users?
I have owned an iPod since 2004, an iPhone since 2007, and an iPad since 2011.
MrSinatra wrote: so you are saying it isn't true? that most iOS users download a 3rd party app to play music? b/c that's just obviously false.

and I am completely confident that non-apple stereo hardware, ***that CAN'T natively play ALAC,*** is a very small piece of the marketplace compared to all the apple gear AND non-apple but ALAC capable gear out there.
You have no source for either of these.

By the way, I'm not asking you to prove the sky is blue. I'm asking you to provide some basis for what you are saying.

Re: Mediamonkey alternative

by MrSinatra » Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:35 pm

nohitter151 wrote:But I could say the same about FLAC. You can make them work on Macs, iPods, iPhones, iTunes, etc. Sure it requires some "extra effort"
have you ever tried? in my experience it is extremely difficult to impossible, esp in the case of itunes. but what I can do or can't do isn't the point. the point is that those users DON'T do it. that is just beyond obvious, or do u contend otherwise?
nohitter151 wrote:but the same could be said about playing ALAC files on Android devices and/or through Windows Media Player.
its MUCH easier to play ALAC on android, b/c android users use lots of different music players, including a large amount of 3rd party players, which is totally unlike iOS users. just look at the DLs of say the winamp app for android. out of the box android music players are hardly uniform, the way they are in iOS. the vast majority of iOS users just stick with the native iOS player.

and WMP doesn't play FLAC natively either, so I hardly get your point on that? a lot more people use 3rd party players in windows, like MM or winamp, then apple users use something else besides iTunes. do you actually know any apple users?
nohitter151 wrote:You saying that "Apple people won't download 3rd party stuff" and "Android people are used to 3rd party stuff" is hearsay and unsubstantiated. Show me a source for that info, and while you're at it, a source for "non-apple stereo hardware being a very small piece of the marketplace".
so you are saying it isn't true? that most iOS users download a 3rd party app to play music? b/c that's just obviously false.

and I am completely confident that non-apple stereo hardware, ***that CAN'T natively play ALAC,*** is a very small piece of the marketplace compared to all the apple gear AND non-apple but ALAC capable gear out there.

you can choose to believe whatever you want, but I have no desire in proving the sky is blue.

Re: Mediamonkey alternative

by nohitter151 » Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:59 pm

MrSinatra wrote:again, you keep quoting total popularity as an argument. its not. universality is not defined as popularity.

in your stats above, there is nowhere I can't easily get ALACs to work, no one who uses my ALACs has trouble employing them.
But I could say the same about FLAC. You can make them work on Macs, iPods, iPhones, iTunes, etc. Sure it requires some "extra effort" but the same could be said about playing ALAC files on Android devices and/or through Windows Media Player. You saying that "Apple people won't download 3rd party stuff" and "Android people are used to 3rd party stuff" is hearsay and unsubstantiated. Show me a source for that info, and while you're at it, a source for "non-apple stereo hardware being a very small piece of the marketplace".

Re: Mediamonkey alternative

by MrSinatra » Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:47 am

again, you keep quoting total popularity as an argument. its not. universality is not defined as popularity.

in your stats above, there is nowhere I can't easily get ALACs to work, no one who uses my ALACs has trouble employing them.

meanwhile, your stats demonstrate that large percentages of people will not be able to easily employ FLACs. that's just the reality. I am fully prepared to agree to disagree on that point, as I assume you are. but the idea that macs/apple/istuff are no longer gaining in popularity? come on. it doesn't matter if its a minority or not, (and I agree it is), its still big enough to not be dismissed. not sure where you live, but in the USA a lot of people are apple-ites, and my files work for them, as well as everyone else I come across, and that's what's important.

Re: Mediamonkey alternative

by nohitter151 » Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:39 pm

MrSinatra wrote: http://appleinsider.com/articles/14/01/ ... s---report
http://appleinsider.com/articles/14/01/ ... shrinks-75
reminds me of the old yogi berra line about if he wanted to go to a certain restaurant: "nobody goes there anymore, its too crowded!"
An article that shows Apple having a good quarter in sales is hardly relevant. You need to look at the overall picture
Desktop operating system browsing statistics on Net Applications
Windows 7 - 47.52%
Windows XP - 28.98%
Windows 8 - 10.49%
OS X - 7.53%
Windows Vista - 3.61%
Linux - 1.73%
Other - 4.88%
http://www.mobilestatistics.com/mobile-devices/
ANDROID - Market Share: 56.1%
IPHONE - Market Share: 22.9%
BLACKBERRY - Market Share: 6.9%
WINDOWS - Market Share: 1.9%

Re: Mediamonkey alternative

by MrSinatra » Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:57 pm

nohitter151 wrote:I'd say Apple and it's devices are very much on a decline from their former popularity in the early and mid 2000's.
http://appleinsider.com/articles/14/01/ ... s---report

http://appleinsider.com/articles/14/01/ ... shrinks-75

reminds me of the old yogi berra line about if he wanted to go to a certain restaurant: "nobody goes there anymore, its too crowded!"

Re: Mediamonkey alternative

by nohitter151 » Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:40 pm

MrSinatra wrote:yes, my argument rests on the fact that FLAC is not supported in any kind of reasonable way in the apple world, and while 10 years ago that would not have mattered much, today it matters a lot.
Sorry but we fundamentally disagree on this point. I'd say Apple and it's devices are very much on a decline from their former popularity in the early and mid 2000's. Really no use debating it further.

Re: Mediamonkey alternative

by MrSinatra » Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:58 pm

people who use apple stuff typically don't DL 3rd party stuff to replace or add on to iTunes or their iapps, and forget about apple hardware natively supporting FLAC either. for a file to be universal, it needs to conform to environments, not require users to conform to it. last time i tried to make iTunes do flac, (a couple years admittedly) i said 'to hell with this' as the effort it would have required was well beyond worthwhile. is this apples fault? of course! but i deal with the world as it is.

android people otoh are used to 3rd party stuff and most of that supports ALAC, as does a lot of software like winamp, MM, fb2k, cuetools, etc. I would say that on non-apple stereo hardware, FLAC might enjoy some degree of an advantage in that sector of the marketplace, but lots of it also supports ALAC, and overall its a very small piece of the total marketplace, and not likely to remain an advantage since ALAC is now open source and royalty free and being more widely adopted b/c there is no reason not to adopt it.

also, this isn't a question of popularity anyway, its a question of universality, so don't conflate the two. something more popular, which I fully agree FLAC is, is not then necessarily also more universal. again, blame apple for FLACs failure in this regard, but that's the fact.

yes, my argument rests on the fact that FLAC is not supported in any kind of reasonable way in the apple world, and while 10 years ago that would not have mattered much, today it matters a lot. i would be shocked to find out that anyone reading this didn't know at least a few people (probably a LOT of people) who were firmly apple users (either by choice or ignorance) and therefore wouldn't be able to avail themselves of FLACs. however, i doubt they would know anyone else who couldn't avail themselves of ALACs. that's the reality as i see it.

IF apple were to support FLAC, I'd have stayed with FLAC, no question. but its about 99% more likely things adopt ALAC, then apple suddenly adopts FLAC, and so it made sense to make the switch, b/c i needed my files to work for others right now, and again given the open sourcing/royalty free status it now enjoys, i likely won't ever need to switch from ALAC to something else to stay the most universal my lossless can be.

Re: Mediamonkey alternative

by nohitter151 » Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:24 pm

MrSinatra wrote:indeed it doesn't. not the point. the point, as is all too clear, is that someone, anyone, with ALACs will find its easier to get them to play in the overall marketplace than FLACs are. this b/c there is no easy way to get FLACs to work in the apple eco-system, while it is pretty easy to get ALACs to work just about anywhere, and for free.

this fact is what makes ALACs more universal, b/c universal is defined as applicable anywhere, which FLACs are demonstrably not. while I'm sure you'll look for exceptions to where or what ALACs [won't] work with, its negligible compared to apples lack of support for FLAC.
Lifehacker article from 2012:
FLAC: The Free Lossless Audio Codec (FLAC) is the most popular lossless format, making it a good choice if you want to store your music in lossless.
Hydrogenaudio list of pros and cons for FLAC and ALAC:
ALAC cons
-Limited software support
FLAC pros
-Hardware support (Karma, Phatbox, etc.)
-Very good software support
Basically your whole argument rests on the fact that iTunes and iPods can't play FLAC, and can play ALAC. But other than iPods ALAC has terrible hardware support. Any modern receiver, amp, or home media center will support native FLAC playback, not ALAC. Not to mention (again) the prevalence of Android vs. iOS. And sure, you can download some 3rd party app on an Android device to play ALAC tracks. You can also download some 3rd party addons to play FLACs in iTunes and FLAC tracks on iOS devices. So your argument doesn't hold water in that regard either.

Re: Mediamonkey alternative

by Peke » Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:23 pm

Have you tried http://www.tuneshell.com/ I love it on Touch.

Re: Mediamonkey alternative

by MrSinatra » Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:58 pm

indeed it doesn't. not the point. the point, as is all too clear, is that someone, anyone, with ALACs will find its easier to get them to play in the overall marketplace than FLACs are. this b/c there is no easy way to get FLACs to work in the apple eco-system, while it is pretty easy to get ALACs to work just about anywhere, and for free.

this fact is what makes ALACs more universal, b/c universal is defined as applicable anywhere, which FLACs are demonstrably not. while I'm sure you'll look for exceptions to where or what ALACs [won't] work with, its negligible compared to apples lack of support for FLAC.

Re: Mediamonkey alternative

by nohitter151 » Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:46 pm

MrSinatra wrote:u can believe whatever u like, but I was speaking to my own files,
Well you called ALAC "more universal"... the universe doesn't revolve around you. :wink:

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