Search Entire Library vs Context-sensitive Search

Post by **rusty** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:50 pm

Please let me know what you prefer, BUT GIVE A REASON.

Thx.

-Rusty

MarineBrat · Post by **MarineBrat** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:31 pm

Regardless of which way this goes I think there should be an obvious and easy way to do either one. Even if it's at the expense of having a second search dialog available on the toolbar.

I do think that the search should also tend to respect the overall filter that you have enabled (File/Manage Filters), which means that there's really four options needed.

1) Search Entire Database
2) Search Entire Database (within active filter constraints)
3) Search Current Node
4) Search Current Node (within active filter contraints)

I also think that the local menu on each node should have a search option which searches that node only. So if (for instance) I want to search just Johnny Cash for the word "summer", I can just go to the (Artist\Johnny Cash) node, right click and select search. The same menu option should exist on every single node, everywhere.

By the same token, if I want to search a particular genre or rating or year (decade even) via the local menu on the tree view I could just right click on it and search.

Perhaps that search dialog could have something like:

---------------------------------
Search for:__________
Search within node: __pick-list with current node default__
Active Filter (On/Off)
---------------------------------

Obviously this is just off the top of my head, but that's the idea.

Steegy · Post by **Steegy** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:11 pm

As long as the user can choose and this choice is persisting on restart of MM, I can live with both situations as default.

To put it simple, I'd like a search box similar to that of web browsers like Maxthon:

With one look, you could see what MediaMonkey is searching on (all fields, title, artist, lyrics, ...) by an icon and the faded text in the search box. By clicking the icon, the user could select a different search field from a list (like shown here).
The search glass icon at the right activates the search, just as pressing the Enter key does (the search would not start during typing). An extra button on the right (or some other solution) would make it clear that there's also an advanced search possible.
The search box itself would have a drop down list with the past searches, and an item to clear the search history.

Ideally I'd prefer a separate filter search box that only filters the current node during typing, or after pressing Enter.
But using the same search box for library-wide search and node-only search is probably more logical for MM. In that case I'd prefer a button in front of the search box, that allows selection of the search domain (library or node) and that clearly displays this with an icon.

Simple search should be easy and powerful (like on search engines), so that the 'dreaded' advanced search box isn't necessary.

Problems with only allowing search within current node:
- an extra click is needed to select a main node (titles, artists, ...) before the user can actually do a simple search (search whole library)
- the clicked node has to be loaded first (which can take some time and be annoyingly unnecessary)
- there's an extra history entry, just for doing a search
- this would be contradictory to recent wishes for a simple, and "search engine" style, search

So I prefer the library-wide search.

MarineBrat wrote:Regardless of which way this goes I think there should be an obvious and easy way to do either one. Even if it's at the expense of having a second search dialog available on the toolbar.

Exactly.

About the library filter:
I'd prefer only searches within the currently used library (selected library filter), but if the complete database could be searched, I'd make this an option (as there's probably no need to change this constantly).

Bex · Post by **Bex** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:01 pm

Yes, I somewhat agree with both above.

The main search should always consider the whole library but you should be able to always apply the global filter if you like.

Node search is an brilliant idea but should (only) be accessed as an option in the right click pop menu of the node. Here you also should be able to always apply the global filter if you like.

/Bex

Teknojnky · Post by **Teknojnky** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:30 pm

Steegy wrote:As long as the user can choose and this choice is persisting on restart of MM, I can live with both situations as default.

To put it simple, I'd like a search box similar to that of web browsers like Maxthon:

I agree with Steegy, far more important than what the default is, is how it is displayed to the user which mode it is in, and that it retains (persists) that selection across restarts.

Danny · Post by **Danny** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:38 am

Steegy wrote: To put it simple, I'd like a search box similar to that of web browsers like Maxthon:

With one look, you could see what MediaMonkey is searching on (all fields, title, artist, lyrics, ...) by an icon and the faded text in the search box. By clicking the icon, the user could select a different search field from a list (like shown here).
The search glass icon at the right activates the search, just as pressing the Enter key does (the search would not start during typing). An extra button on the right (or some other solution) would make it clear that there's also an advanced search possible.
The search box itself would have a drop down list with the past searches, and an item to clear the search history.

I agree w/Steegy, with the lone exception that I see no need for a second search box. Actually, I'm very happy with the way MM3A5 handles searches right now, giving us a choice as to entire library or current node search, but Steegy's idea would display the active search - i.e., either library or current node - in the search box.

Less importantly, I agree that a library-wide search should be the default, agreeing with the others that the choice to use either is more important.

Thanks, Danny

trixmoto · Post by **trixmoto** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:50 am

Yes, I use this type of search box in Firefox and it's so useful cos you can see what mode you're in straight away!

RandallSG · Post by **RandallSG** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:02 am

My preferred default option is to limit within the current filter criteria. My library is quite large (110K) and a search of the entire library can take quite a long time and is difficult to stop once started.

However, I agree that this should be user selectable.

cmx · Post by **cmx** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:43 pm

User choice.

Selection visible and selectable in single search window as noted above.

So...no vote either way, I want both.

ohh...sorry i didn't give a reason.

I assume "Search selected node only" would mean just search down the tree from the tree location your cursor currently has selected...I would find this cumbersome....in working with the library, I would most often have to manually move "up" the tree from where I currently was to the area I would assume needed to be searched...a lot of decision, distraction and moving back and forth to no purpose....

Size mainly would be the reason to use "Search selected node only" As Randall noted above, a complete search of a large library is very slow. MM maxes out my CPU here....yet MOST often a complete search IS what is wanted or needed. For example: I am experimenting with breaking my library up into smaller physical units/collections...the smaller range search might be useful here...

Ultimately...practically for most users and intuitively for all users, when we ask for a search we just want it done, and with complete results...no thinking please...so a full search seems the only logical "default" if a choice actually has to be made.

JoergR · Post by **JoergR** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:33 am

I'm voting for "Search entire library" because I don't want to navigate first and then drop a query.
BUT I would love to see the same functionality like I can use in MediaPlayer, Vista Search, Google, ... : controling the search with key words like "artist:<search phrase>" or "title:<search phrase>" or "ranking:".

heronheart · Post by **heronheart** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:20 pm

I have a slight preference for "Search Entire Library". What I would really like to see would be a radio button next to the search box that would switch back and forth between "Search Entire Library" and "Search Node" and which would be persistent between sessions.

rovingcowboy · Post by **rovingcowboy** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:25 pm

search the entire library.

because it might have been removed completely and you don't know that by looking in one node.

or it is not in the node you thought it was, and you won't find it by looking in only one node.

if you're searching for it then its painfully obvious that you have lost it and don't know where to look.

gege · Post by **gege** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 7:03 pm

I also vote for the ease of choice, no matter what is the default.
Firefox's way.

Nebbin · Post by **Nebbin** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:32 pm

I'm leaning towards searching the entire library by default, since most of the time I'm looking for something I have little idea of (and using keywords) or trying to find all instances of a phrase / title / artist etc. As I have yet to try MM3 my style of use may change once I get used to the new system.

Still I imagine it would be very useful to have quick access to searching within current nodes, playlists and global search results.

demm · Post by **demm** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:35 am

I like Steegy's suggestion. Since such a search box is implemented in almost all browsers, everybody knows how to use them.

Another idea would be like Outlook 2007 does it. It has kind of a "header bar" above the main listview which shows in which node you're currently in (e.g. "Inbox", "Outbox", ...) and in this bar there is a small textbox which instantly filters (=searches as you type) the current view. In addition to that, there's the search toolbar (like MM has right now).

Search Entire Library vs Context-sensitive Search

when you enter a query in the search bar, how do you prefer it be handled by default and why:

Search Entire Library vs Context-sensitive Search