MMA Can't See MMW UPnP Server

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jmac_the_man
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:47 am

Re: MMA Can't See MMW UPnP Server

Post by jmac_the_man » Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:19 pm

Ludek,

Since I can see WMP and MMW from MMA if both WMP and MMW are running on the same machine, I'm not sure why changing the port that MMW runs on would help me. The problem occurs when there's two DLNA servers (either WMP or MMW) with different IP addresses (because they're running on different machines.)

I can see both DLNA servers from PC 1, or both DLNA servers from PC 2, but not both at the same time. I've also never been able to get MMW on PC 1 to see MMW on PC 2 or vice versa, even when MMA or Bubble can see them both. This leads me to suspect that we're not talking about a firewall issue.

I followed the instructions on the page you linked before I made the topic in the first place. I checked the firewall logs, and nothing is being blocked over the MMW DLNA server port. I can send you the Windows Firewall logs if you want/can use them. I've already provided numerous other logs (attached to my ticket) and the developer who looked at the ticket used the MMA log to identify that the connection to MMW on PC 1 dropped out entirely when MMW on PC 2 was started.

I think there's a problem with how the MMW DLNA server reacts to seeing another DLNA server on the network. It looks like the DLNA server backs off or something and then doesn't come back in correctly.

Also, can you confirm MMW's interaction with the Windows DLNA service? Thanks.

Ludek
Posts: 2887
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:00 am

Re: MMA Can't See MMW UPnP Server

Post by Ludek » Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:42 pm

OK.
I guess I know where the problem lies, watching the eSupport ticket and the DeviceDescription.XML I found that both the servers has same <UDN>uuid:4cfca1fd-7a0b-4ee7-b269-d8800cc38cdd</UDN> , so I guess you are sharing the single MMW database (MM.DB) over the network for both the PCs, right? That would explain the same UDN and your issue
Also, can you confirm MMW's interaction with the Windows DLNA service?
Based on my tests on my Windows 7 Home Premium x64, I cannot confirm.

Could you please write down exact name of the Windows service? And also your exact Windows OS spec?
I guess we should add it to the KB article if the service is not enabled by default in some environments (like your).

Thanks!

jmac_the_man
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:47 am

Re: MMA Can't See MMW UPnP Server

Post by jmac_the_man » Wed Jan 14, 2015 6:47 pm

My environment is pretty similar to what you described. I actually have 3 Windows machines (one of which was disabled for all of this testing, hence PC1 and PC2.) One had been my primary machine, but I copied the music files, the MM.DB, and the ini to a NAS, and then I pulled them all back down to the other two. They're all copies of the same original MM.DB, but there's no live synchronization between them. (They WERE synced externally (via DSynchronize), but I turned off the syncing once I thought how MM probably stores the IP and port number of the DLNA server in the database.)

So all the UPnP servers have the same UUID. Is there a way to fix that without creating a new MM.DB?

The behavior I'm actually looking for is to have the ability for multiple MM instances to coexist on the same network while sharing the music metadata (but not necessarily the MM configuration) stored in the MM DB. This way, I could have my desktop and laptop both sync with a NAS and pull down the music itself and the music metadata, but then I could take my laptop somewhere else and still have all my music, metadata, etc. I know that's not possible, but is it on the roadmap? Do you guys plan to implement features like this?

The service name is upnphost. It has the display name of UPnP Device Host, and it is part of a standard install of Windows 8.1, at the very least. (The one it is not enabled on by default is an HP Stream 7, which is a 7 inch tablet that runs the full version of Windows 8.1 (not RT). Since it's a tablet, that may explain why the DLNA server is disabled in the OEM install of the OS.)

Ludek
Posts: 2887
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:00 am

Re: MMA Can't See MMW UPnP Server

Post by Ludek » Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:09 am

jmac_the_man wrote:My environment is pretty similar to what you described. I actually have 3 Windows machines (one of which was disabled for all of this testing, hence PC1 and PC2.) One had been my primary machine, but I copied the music files, the MM.DB, and the ini to a NAS, and then I pulled them all back down to the other two. They're all copies of the same original MM.DB, but there's no live synchronization between them. (They WERE synced externally (via DSynchronize), but I turned off the syncing once I thought how MM probably stores the IP and port number of the DLNA server in the database.)

So all the UPnP servers have the same UUID. Is there a way to fix that without creating a new MM.DB?
Yes, just create another server via Options -> Media Sharing -> [Add] button on PC2. You can disable the old one on PC2.
The behavior I'm actually looking for is to have the ability for multiple MM instances to coexist on the same network while sharing the music metadata (but not necessarily the MM configuration) stored in the MM DB. This way, I could have my desktop and laptop both sync with a NAS and pull down the music itself and the music metadata, but then I could take my laptop somewhere else and still have all my music, metadata, etc. I know that's not possible, but is it on the roadmap? Do you guys plan to implement features like this?
Yes, we are planning MMW <-> MMW WiFi sync, but as for the timeline I am not sure, currently we are working hard on MM5 (completelly new UI - HTML5/JS).
As workaround you could use MMW <-> MMA <-> MMW sync (when you use bidi sync), but it would require all your music have also in MMA which might be problem (depending on the size of your library)
The service name is upnphost. It has the display name of UPnP Device Host, and it is part of a standard install of Windows 8.1, at the very least. (The one it is not enabled on by default is an HP Stream 7, which is a 7 inch tablet that runs the full version of Windows 8.1 (not RT). Since it's a tablet, that may explain why the DLNA server is disabled in the OEM install of the OS.)
Yes, I have upnphost service, but it was always running by default on all of my Windows installs, so I guess you had to disable it manually?
Based on our tests the upnphost service can be disabled and MMW <-> MMA sharing still works.

'HP Stream 7' sounds really like a tablet related service, we can update the KB article about that.

jmac_the_man
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:47 am

Re: MMA Can't See MMW UPnP Server

Post by jmac_the_man » Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:19 pm

Ludek wrote:Yes, just create another server via Options -> Media Sharing -> [Add] button on PC2. You can disable the old one on PC2.
Great. I'll do that when I get home. However, the stuff about how each DLNA server has a different GUID, and if you copy MM.DB, you have to make a new DLNA server, isn't in any of the "How to transfer your MM Database" FAQs/Tutorials/etc. Please add this information to your instructions.
Ludek wrote:Yes, we are planning MMW <-> MMW WiFi sync
Is the intent for that like it will be MMA sync in that you hit the sync button and then the GUI locks up while the files transfer? Or is it going to be relatively live synchronization?
Ludek wrote:Yes, I have upnphost service, but it was always running by default on all of my Windows installs, so I guess you had to disable it manually?

Based on our tests the upnphost service can be disabled and MMW <-> MMA sharing still works.

'HP Stream 7' sounds really like a tablet related service, we can update the KB article about that.
HP Stream 7 is the product name of the tablet. It's not a service running in Windows. (A typo in my original post makes this ambiguous. Sorry about that.) I think that because the Stream 7 is a tablet, HP expected people to use it as a renderer, rather than having it be the host for DLNA renderers, and so they disabled the upnphost service by default. (This is why it's running on the desktop/laptop machines I've used it with.

I think the upnphost service is used by WMP, and it probably shouldn't affect MMW at all if you guys aren't explicitly using it. The stuff with the UUID makes a lot more sense. Thanks a lot for your help.

jmac_the_man
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:47 am

Re: MMA Can't See MMW UPnP Server

Post by jmac_the_man » Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:50 am

Ludek wrote:As workaround you could use MMW <-> MMA <-> MMW sync (when you use bidi sync)
I can't figure out how to set this up. On all of the servers, I set the one with the duplicate UUID to the name "LEGACY DO NOT ENABLE," disabled that one, and created a new server with the name PCX MMW, where X is which PC it is.

PC1 MMW <-> MMA works fine. Then, I went to turn on bidirectional sync in the Device Profile screen of PC2 MMW. The Summary tab of that screen has an option for "Grant Remote sync/access rights to the..." The DLNA server it's set to is "LEGACY DO NOT ENABLE." There's no option to change the setting. How do I set the DLNA server to the new PC2 MMW server rather than the legacy one with the duplicate UUID?

Also, wifi sync is triggered from MMA, not MMW. How do I set which server I'm syncing with in MMA?

Ludek
Posts: 2887
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:00 am

Re: MMA Can't See MMW UPnP Server

Post by Ludek » Mon Jan 19, 2015 4:33 pm

jmac_the_man wrote: How do I set which server I'm syncing with in MMA?
MMA -> Options -> WiFi sync -> Select Sync server

But thinking about it again this won't be a good workaround, currently there will be launched a pairing process on sync server change (resulting in unpairing from the previously selected server) due to the issue: http://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=9941

So for now the only workaround seems to be sharing MM.DB (as used to be) until MMW <-> MMW WiFi sync feature is added.

dtsig
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Re: MMA Can't See MMW UPnP Server

Post by dtsig » Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:20 am

Ludek wrote:until MMW <-> MMW WiFi sync feature is added.
Which is just a little step from sharing db :wink: well maybe not a little step but ...
Where's the db and ini stored
Reporting Bugs
Where tags are stored

Not affiliated with MediaMonkey ... just a RABID user/lover
DTSig

jmac_the_man
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:47 am

Re: MMA Can't See MMW UPnP Server

Post by jmac_the_man » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:41 pm

Ludek wrote:So for now the only workaround seems to be sharing MM.DB (as used to be) until MMW <-> MMW WiFi sync feature is added.
MM.DB is where the UUID lives for each DLNA server lives, right? Sharing the MM.DB makes it so you can't consistently connect or sync via DLNA.

You guys should put the DLNA server settings (including the UUID) in the ini file rather than the MM.DB so you can synchronize the user's music metadata, but not the MM settings.

Also, the issue you linked mentioned a fix for this in MMA 1.1. Any timetable for that?

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