MMA Can't See MMW UPnP Server

Beta Testing for Windows Products and plugins

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jmac_the_man
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MMA Can't See MMW UPnP Server

Post by jmac_the_man » Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:16 pm

Hey all,

I'm trying to get my MMA device to see the UPnP server running on my MMW machine so I can sync it. I've been banging my head against it but so far no luck.

I have the MMW UPnP port set to 4000 because I'm debugging it, and the MMW UPnP server shows up in the Media Servers tree in the MMW client. I can't get it to show up in the Android client. (Using a port scanner from the Android device, I can see that SOMETHING is running on port 4000.)

MMW is running on Windows 8.1 and is version 4.1.6.1725, the latest beta release. (I just downloaded it tonight.) It's the debug version and it's MMW Gold.
MMA Pro is running on a Samsung Galaxy S4 and is version 1.0.7.0311, the latest version in the play store.
The MMA log ID is JAYLJPQQ1C. I'm enclosing the MMW log in a ticket.

Lowlander
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Re: MMA Can't See MMW UPnP Server

Post by Lowlander » Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:08 am

Did you check with another client on the network? Often it's a firewall issue blocking MMW.
Lowlander (MediaMonkey user since 2003)

jmac_the_man
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Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:47 am

Re: MMA Can't See MMW UPnP Server

Post by jmac_the_man » Wed Jan 07, 2015 12:32 am

I captured a Windows firewall log, but couldn't see the packets being blocked. One of the messages gave me a hint, I checked, and the Windows UPnP service (from the Windows services console, not the MMW service) was not enabled. I started the service and restarted my machine, and I was able to see the UPnP server. I suggest that you add "Make sure the Windows UPnP service is running from the Windows Services console" to the appropriate help page.

Through the course of the troubleshooting, I found some other issues though.

1A. I was checking against a known working copy of MMW on X.X.1.21:5000, with the machine I was troubleshooting on X.X.1.19:4000. I just checked again now that I can see the server on Android, and I still can't see one MMW server from the other. I suspect this has something to do with the filter you guys use so that the MMW DLNA server doesn't show up under Media Servers unless you set the port to 4000. I suggest that you make the filter look for the IP address AND the port, and not filter out MMW servers that aren't running on the local machine.

1B. I was checking the DLNA servers from MMA. I started the MMW server from .19, then ran the scan from MMA, which picked up .19. I then started the MMW server from .21, which was not picked up by MMA. Then, while leaving .19 running, I closed MMW on .21, which caused the MMA scan to lose .19 for a second. It later picked it back up. I think this is tied to 1A, which means that MMA actually lost track of MMW on .19 for a second. I submitted MMA log 607JR6KN1F, which should show this issue.

2. I was working with the debug and the standard versions of MMW to solve these bugs. The debug version installs on top of the standard version, even if you tell the program to install to different paths. The shortcut for debug MMW will replace the shortcut for standard MMW, and I think they use some of the same registry entries. (Obviously, the configuration file and database are the same too, but that's obviously intentional.) If you're going to be asking people to submit DbgView logs, you should make it possible to have a release version and a debug version installed in parallel. (Alternately, it would be easier on your users to have the release version generate a log as a text file Maybe you could add an option in the Options screen to turn logging on or off?)

If you need any other information (like the firewall logs or whatever) please let me know.

Lowlander
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Re: MMA Can't See MMW UPnP Server

Post by Lowlander » Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:52 pm

1a) I just tried and ran 2 MediaMonkeys (different installs) on the same PC and MediaMonkey 1 detected the Media Server running on MediaMonkey 2 that wasn't assigned port 4000. I've not noticed nor seen reports of MediaMonkey only detecting Media Servers from other MediaMonkey's if they were set to port 4000.

1b) MMA (and BubbleUPnP on same device) didn't see MediaMonkey 2 server.

2) Actually it's desirable that the debug is installed on top of the regular install as that's the environment the issue occurs in. Anyway you can install as many MediaMonkey's as you want independently by choosing Portable Install during installation.
Lowlander (MediaMonkey user since 2003)

jmac_the_man
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Re: MMA Can't See MMW UPnP Server

Post by jmac_the_man » Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:41 pm

Lowlander wrote:1a) I just tried and ran 2 MediaMonkeys (different installs) on the same PC and MediaMonkey 1 detected the Media Server running on MediaMonkey 2 that wasn't assigned port 4000. I've not noticed nor seen reports of MediaMonkey only detecting Media Servers from other MediaMonkey's if they were set to port 4000.
My issue is that two different computers with MMW installed can't see each other... Even though they should be (because MMA can see one of them.)
Lowlander wrote:1b) MMA (and BubbleUPnP on same device) didn't see MediaMonkey 2 server.
For me, MediaMonkey 1 dropped out for a second, but two was never picked up. Regardless, MMA should be able to see two different MMW instances, right?
Lowlander wrote:2) Actually it's desirable that the debug is installed on top of the regular install as that's the environment the issue occurs in. Anyway you can install as many MediaMonkey's as you want independently by choosing Portable Install during installation.
Portable installations don't share a database, do they? Setting up with more portable installs would make it HARDER to get you guys a log file. That's the key issue here: It's too hard to send you guys a log file. You should make that easier somehow, ideally by writing a plaintext log file from the release version of MMW.

Also, can you confirm that the Windows UPnP service has to be running for MMW UPnP servers to work? Or is that not the issue, and I need to go back to trying to fix this?

Lowlander
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Re: MMA Can't See MMW UPnP Server

Post by Lowlander » Wed Jan 07, 2015 9:14 pm

It's really easy to send a log as you should install the debug version over the current install as that's what you're debugging anyway. The debug version is exactly the same other than that it has the added capacity to capture the logs (this may make it a little slower (shouldn't be noticeable) for some, which is why it's not enabled by default). I always run the debug versions and haven't had any issues doing so.

Portable Installs are self contained and thus run their own database. However you can always tell MediaMonkey to use a specific database on your PC: http://www.mediamonkey.com/support/inde ... e-location (works for Portable Installs as well).

2) I would assume that MMA can see all Media Servers on all PCs (my quick test was with 2 MMW's on same PC and BubbleUPnP also failed to see both).
Lowlander (MediaMonkey user since 2003)

jmac_the_man
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Re: MMA Can't See MMW UPnP Server

Post by jmac_the_man » Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:19 pm

I thought that the debug versions were only released for Beta versions. Since there's enough problems with DLNA syncing already, I'd prefer to stick with the stable release versions where possible. I'm willing to help you find bugs, but it's a lot of EXTRA work to do so if I have to screw around with grabbing the debug version and then rolling back to the release version every time.

But that's a feature request... kind of. I'm also pretty sure I found the three bugs.

1. I think the Windows UPnP service has to be running for the MMW UPnP server to work. The documentation doesn't mention this, which means that either I'm way off base on this OR that the documentation needs to be updated to tell users having this problem to start the UPnP service.
2. MMA can't see two different MMW instances at the same time. If MMA is supposed to see all open DLNA servers, including all MMW servers on the network, this is a bug.
3. If you can see an MMW instance from MMA, but then close an instance that MMW can't see, MMA will lose the instance it can see, but then reacquire it right away. (I sent in a log on this one.)

If there's a better way to suggest that these bugs get fixed than pursuing them on this fourm (and a ticket with your helpdesk), please let me know. (I have ticket IQF-673-10550 open with your helpdesk.)

Lowlander
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Re: MMA Can't See MMW UPnP Server

Post by Lowlander » Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:18 am

Stable releases also come in a debug variant: http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewto ... 39#p397139
Lowlander (MediaMonkey user since 2003)

Lowlander
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Re: MMA Can't See MMW UPnP Server

Post by Lowlander » Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:25 pm

I checked now with 2 PCs running MMW and both MMW and MMA saw the servers from both PCs without issues (1 on port 4000, 1 not).
Lowlander (MediaMonkey user since 2003)

jmac_the_man
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Re: MMA Can't See MMW UPnP Server

Post by jmac_the_man » Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:26 pm

Lowlander,

In the PCs you used in the test, do the MediaMonkey.ini files have values for the fields
DLNA_Player_UUID=
DLNA_Player_Name=

Mine are both blank. I know a UUID is a mathematically unique value, (and I would set DLNA player names to unique values, obviously), so this seems like it is how MMW differentiates between different instances of the DLNA server on the LAN.

Is there any truth to my suspicions? Are there supposed to be values in those fields?

Lowlander
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Re: MMA Can't See MMW UPnP Server

Post by Lowlander » Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:24 am

First PC checked shows it empty.
Lowlander (MediaMonkey user since 2003)

Ludek
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Re: MMA Can't See MMW UPnP Server

Post by Ludek » Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:27 am

Hi, the DLNA_Player_UUID and name are not related to the DLNA server, but to the DLNA player (when MM acts as renderer) for ability "play to" MediaMonkey.

I also don't have issues, all MMW servers are visible by MMA.
1) Did you try whether e.g. Bubble UPnP app on the Android see your MMW server or any other server on the same PC?
If "yes" then the issue is problably somehow in MMA, if "no" then issue is in MMW or rather somehow with network/MMW configuration.

2) Are you running MMW as service or you simply run MMW and let it opened while you are accessing the server?
3) Are other DLNA servers (e.g. Windows Media Player) residing on the same PC visible by the Phone?
4) Adjusting IP in MMW -> Options -> Media Sharing -> <server> could help based on the result of answers 1,2,3

jmac_the_man
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Re: MMA Can't See MMW UPnP Server

Post by jmac_the_man » Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:20 pm

Did you try whether e.g. Bubble UPnP app on the Android see your MMW server or any other server on the same PC?
Bubble exhibits the same behavior that MMA does. I can see either one or the other of MMW servers, but not both. (Specifically, it seems like the most recently opened MMW server when I start Bubble locks in and that's the only one Bubble can see. This is the exact same behavior as MMA.)
Are you running MMW as service or you simply run MMW and let it opened while you are accessing the server?
It's the MMW GUI Desktop application. Not the server. (If the MMW Server was actually designed as a server, and then MMW, MMA, Bubble, etc were just clients that connected to it, I don't think I'd be having this problem.)
Are other DLNA servers (e.g. Windows Media Player) residing on the same PC visible by the Phone?
If I open MMW on machine 1, then I open WMP on Machine 1, I can see both of them. If I open WMP or WMA on Machine 2, I can't see the third DLNA server from my phone. If I hit back, and then re-enter the DLNA screen, I can't see ANY DLNA servers on the network from MMA. (Bubble shows both MMW and WMP on machine 1, but not MMA or WMP on machine 2.)
Adjusting IP in MMW -> Options -> Media Sharing -> <server> could help based on the result of answers 1,2,3
What IP address am I supposed to use? Each MMW uses the same IP address as the machine it is running on. (Changing the port doesn't fix this problem.)

Also, I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but I did open a ticket with support about this. I've sent MMW and MMA logs detailing this issue to support already. I have ticket IQF-673-10550 open with your helpdesk.

Finally, since you're a developer, can you confirm that the Windows UPnP service (not the MMW service) has to be running for MMA's UPnP server to work? Changing that got one of the servers to be able to be seen at all, but that might be a red herring.

jmac_the_man
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Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:47 am

Re: MMA Can't See MMW UPnP Server

Post by jmac_the_man » Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:31 pm

Also, I should probably point out that I'm a professional software developer. If you guys want to send me the relevant part of your test procedure (including your standard preparation steps and whatnot,) I can follow it and let you know exactly what I find.

Ludek
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Re: MMA Can't See MMW UPnP Server

Post by Ludek » Wed Jan 14, 2015 5:38 am

Hi, thanks for the info.

If WMP server is visible then try to disable WMP's server and configure MMW server to WMP's IP port (mostly 2869) to see whether it does the trick?
If yes, then a firewall or something blocks the MMW port (most probably).

Also don't know if you tried all suggestions here: http://www.mediamonkey.com/support/inde ... lna-server ?

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