Windows 7 uses wasapi try THIS ONE

doubleij wrote:
If MM developers are too busy to implement a bit perfect output option natively to MM in the near future, why can't we post a high profile "bit perfect how to" for MM on various systems? I'd like to make it easier for other audiophiles to enjoy MM without compromising sound quality.

Any thoughts?

I would LOVE this! Keep searching but am getting more and more confused ... has this been done somewhere ? -- an FAQ for people who don't want to know what a kmixer is or kernel streaming? - is there a more recent post ? I would think that everyone wanting to shunt "digital" audio to a nice stereo would want their source pure above all, but it seems more and more like an arcane science. Why use an expensive DAC or make a choice to use a high end audio card if the signal is adulterated or "DSPed" before leaving the box? I'm not lazy, but the more post I read the more I am totally lost. I thought naively that I could use a PC or NAS as a simple transport and organizer .. a substitute for my CD player .. plug it in to my, now-old, Linn active system and just listen to music ... silly me

Any "layman" how-to-links would be appreciated

Great thread! Like etheriau, I've spent ages ripping my cd's losslessly into flac files. I love MM for it's organizing abilities, but I've really struggled to get bit perfect playback to work. I run a USB out to an external soundcard/DAC and from there to the speakers.

I tried both KS and Asio output plugins for MM and both had scratchy sound. I'm frustrated that KS is this difficult to implement in MM. Other music programs, including Winamp, don't have these problems with my chipset:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/usefu ... oo-410599/

I have now unmapped my USB audio device (thanx Simon and Scott!) in Windows XP and am playing through the Wave Out plugin. Playback is smooth so far. I have no way to test bit transparency on my system (a green light would be nice!), but I'm hoping Wave Out is working bit perfect (as etheriau reported). Certainly sounds good.

If MM developers are too busy to implement a bit perfect output option natively to MM in the near future, why can't we post a high profile "bit perfect how to" for MM on various systems? I'd like to make it easier for other audiophiles to enjoy MM without compromising sound quality.

Any thoughts?

I have spent an incredible amount of time ripping my CD collection to FLACs using EAC and am now struggling trying to get a “bit perfect” output using Media Monkey and Windows 7. I had previously purchased an M-audio Delta 192 card on the PC that I was using with the S/PDIF out to my Receiver (as mentioned previously the card was unmapped in XP). Everything was working fine with the KS plugin and was giving me a bit perfect output either with the KS our ASIO plugins (in Both XP and Windows7). I preferred the KS for stability and gapless playback. The way I could tell I was bit perfect in XP was by not being able to mess with the volume, no other windows sounds were playing and the DVD-Audio 96K would light up if I was playing FLAC files that were at that sample rate on my receiver. One interesting thing with XP is that using the standard Wave Out plugin in MM (disabling volume in the config) was also giving me a bit perfect output. But not in Windows 7...

OK here is where I‘m at today...

I have “upgraded” to Windows 7 (64) and decided to use it against XP. Overall believe it or not I think it’s fairly good and a solid OS (glad I never went for Vista and waited...). I then have been shopping around for a little more high end DAC and decided to go for the Benchmark DAC1 HDR. I just love it the sound quality is great (I’m using it as a headphone amp for now with their “Advanced USB” allowing for a USB 96/24 input....However I’ve only been able to use it to its full potential with Foobar and its KS plugin. I like foobar but I wouldn’t be writing all of this if I didn’t prefer MM...(Paid version has been worth every penny aside from this little...well BIG issue of Bit perfect outpu!!!)

So finally here it is...I’m not able to get Steve Monk’s KS plugin to work with MM 3.0.7.1191 and the DAC1. However it works with my M-Audio so it leads me to believe that Windows 7 is not the issue (also tried in Xp and it’s not working)....Wave out in Windows 7 doesn’t give me bit perfect and can't get find any that will....For what it’s worth I’m also having the KS issue with my laptop and Windows 7 and a Sound Blaster Audigy 2 Zs Notebook PCMCIA card. However the Music Hall USB DAC I was also trying was working with MM Ks plugin and Windows 7.

Has anybody been able to get bit perfect output in Vista/Windows 7 and the Benchmark DAC1 with MM? Why is Steve Monk’s KS plugin working with only certain types of DACs/Sound cards under MM? Oooh I almost forgot Winamp...I can confirm they all work in Winamp (but don’t want to go back to using it....)

I wish MM would solve this issue and make native bit perfect outputs and not just plugins we add on. Or at least have one that is supported and works!!...

Steegy wrote:I tried the plugin and it works, but don't ask me if it is better. It probably is a bit better, but still my sound card's equalizer settings have effect on the output (what is supposed not to happen).

I just found this thread and tried the Steve Monk plugin as well -- it's working pretty much as I would expect, both in WinAmp and MM.

When I first started it, it was running thru the soundblaster card, not the USB audio. After a couple of tries in the Configure screen, I finally noticed the big field for selecting the "Output device" -- but (on my system, at least) that appears blank. But, it has two (blank) entries in it, one for each of my sound devices; so I just selected the second, and voila -- USB audio.

I've got a USB->S/PDIF box feeding an HDCD-capable DAC on the stereo. The USB card is using Windows' USB Audio driver, nothing special. I did figure out how to make this bit-transparent even without using this plugin: I opened the Windows mixer, selected the USB device (Options | Properties), and maxed all the volume controls (there are three, in my configuration). This was definitely working, since the HDCD light lit up for HDCD tracks; this won't happen unless the bitstream is transmitted transparently. But I was still getting occasional dropouts in the sound, often if I was doing CPU-intensive stuff at the computer (e.g. ripping) but sometimes even if the computer was idle except for the occasional check for mail.

So I had hopes for this plugin. I'm playing thru it now, and the Windows mixer has no effect on the sound, so kmixer is definitely being bypassed; that's a good thing, I guess. And the HDCD light is on. But I also got a dropout in the first ten minutes of playback, which is what I wanted to avoid; and the computer wasn't even doing anything besides playback. I'd been hoping KS would grab the highest thread priority possible and not get interrupted for anything. Maybe I'm wrong about what's causing the problem, but the dropout are definitely more frequent when the computer is busy. But: it is old (750MHz P4, Windows 2000); maybe a faster machine (later this year) will help.

I'll have to do some some comparison listening soon to see if there's any improvement between the DirectSound plugin and the KS one.

Well, after a lot of fiddling about, I am exactly back where I started.

usb_audio did not work, even after downloading a demo of another ASIO device so I could access the control panel (help desk suggestion by usb_audio who replied very quickly). No device was recognised in the control panel, complete waste of time.

asio4all still behaved the same way as previously advised, so no joy there. I think I was kidding myself that I could hear a difference even when asio4all was not showing 'beyond logic' for the USB DAC, so presumably not working.

Scott Nixon also kindly replied quickly to my query about his recommendations for a driver, advising:

quote
I don't use any ASIO at all. Don't need them... just unmap the device and it effectively does the same thing with no issues.
unquote

Unmapping the device (which I had done when I first started using Scott's DAC) is done via one of Windows' classic ultra buried menus (in XP anyway).

You open Sounds & Audio Devices in the Control Panel, click the Hardware tab, then select the device in the list box, then click Properties. Then in the new window that comes up you click the Properies tab, then in the list box you open the sublist under Audio Devices, select the device, then click Properties (yet again). This brings a further window where you at last have the option to select "Do not map through this device". Finally the quest is over and the device is un-mapped.

This may be useful to some people. I am now sticking with that, unless some new ideas emerge.

I would still love to hear from anybody else experimenting in this direction, and indeed anybody who can give a clear explananation of what XP is doing when it maps or does not map through the device. Also what MM2's player is/does.

All I am trying to get is the cleanest export of a digital signal from PC to DAC via the USB cable. I know a lot of people are also pursuing the convergence route between the supreme convenience of a music collection stored and managed on a PC, and the aural joy of playing music through a proper hifi. Unfortunately, web research on the topic produces an above average amount of confusion, prejudice and nonsense, while hifi magazines are generally alarmingly ill-informed on the computer end of the equation.

Thus why any input from sane MM users, based on practical experience will be so welcome.

No problem.
Keep us posted.

Thanks Peke for the clarification. I had been looking at USB Audio and Asio4all, and your post encouraged me to try both.
usbaudio just wouldn't play (and I could not access its control panel either). asio4all worked and I thnk I was getting more bass and attack with it compared to plain vanilla windows, but it kept switching itself to 'beyond logic' and in the end I was not sure whether there was a difference or if it was just me wanting to think it was different.
To Steegy, thanks alao for your patience but the Steve Monks was the same, not playing then hanging MM completely.
So not much progress I'm afraid.
I have emails into usb audio asking about whether the tube DAC is compatible at all with their driver, and to Scott Nixon asking if he has any tips.
Any ideas or pointers from anybody about how to enrich the MM audiophile experience gratefully received. I think this is an important aspect and that MM probably undersells its potential in this regard.
I will post again if/when I get anywhere.
One last question? What is the MM mp3 player? How much if at all is it different fom Windows standard issue?

By 'any driver' I meant that I do not own device (but I would like have it). And by searching for driver meant something like this post http://www4.head-fi.com/forums/showthre ... 4&t=223586
I hope this will get you started. Windows Generic drivers are proven in past to give less quality that 'any' third party driver for device you can find.

No doubt sounding like a complete doofus, but these are genuine questions.

I doubt that when you decided to buy that device and yes they are.

Thanks but wow! 'search any driver'? I need more hand holding than that!
Seriously, what search should I do? Specifically what am I looking for?
No doubt sounding like a complete doofus, but these are genuine questions.

@Simon Chick
I have new MotherBoard with new CMI 7.1 Audio that WinXP SP2 recognize as USB audio. Althru it works its power is unleashed only when I installed some beta drivers I have found on Internet. Big difference in fidelity (30%+ improvement). Search/find any driver and try again.

Thanks for that. I will try again. Maybe I rushed it last time.
I do not have a sound card, in the normal sense.
Instead I have a Scott Nixon USB DAC with tube buffer; it is just recognised as a USB Sound Device by Windows, with no dedicated driver. I have Win XP SP2, fully updated, so assume that the drivers are up to date.
It is actually from reading about drawbacks with the Windows kernel mixer, and the general desire to try to make it better that has driven this desire to change to an alternative way of operating.
I will try installing again then re-post.

I took the same steps as you: I unzipped the dll file, put it in MM's Plugins folder, (re)started MM, selected the plugin as active output plugin in the options, started playback.
I have WindowsXP SP2 and I'm using MM 2.5.5.988. Sound card driver is Realtek AC'97 Audio Driver (WDM) for VIA 686/8231.
Is your sound driver up to date?

Thanks for quick comment. Can you identify what I might have done wrong to install it? Doing anything with .dll's makes me nervous at the best of times.
If there is any more info needed about my setup please ask.
Thanks in advance

I tried the plugin and it works, but don't ask me if it is better. It probably is a bit better, but still my sound card's equalizer settings have effect on the output (what is supposed not to happen).