iTunes 9.0 Compatibility

[chrismmm]

i dont get it! why load itunes 9?

[iana]

I want to add my voice to those observing that, while the MM teams efforts in fixing problems is appreciated, these are things that should have been avoided and/or should have been handled much better. I find it quite appalling that there seems to have been no formal announcement re the issues with OS3 (the opposite: go to the MM home pages, and you will see claims that MM works with all IPods), nor any warning about IiTunes 9. Silence is not golden.

Someone said, "why load iTunes 9?". I loaded it because I was so disappointed with MMs handling of the OS3 release and I wanted to see whether iTunes 9 meant that I could ditch MM. Yes, I agree that MM is a much better product on paper (for music, that is; but not for photos and video), but the best function list in the world is no good if it doesn't actually work.

[Brahma]

I also am extremely disgusted with the ability of this product to keep up with the changes going on at Apple. The product itself is superb- the support and continuing development is NOT. You have definately come up with a fine product- I just want to know where the money is going- certainly not to the development department.

I've just installed the new BETA hoping it will solve my issues. Hooray- it works with iTunes 9.0! Boo!- it doesn't work with my updated iPhone AGAIN!

Net result= "worthless software". (STILL advertised as working with the iPhone)

I have three options for Ventis Media:

1. Take some of my $60.00 I spent, and spend it on development for fixing the product and KEEPING it fixed.
2. Take some of my $60.00 I spent, give it to an attorney, and sue Apple for millions for their business practices that Microsoft so successfully got sued for time and again.
3. Refund my $60.00.

[Lowlander]

Apple has chosen to lock everybody out and has so far been successful doing so. There have been some attempts to force Apple to open up, but I'm not aware that anyone succeeded. Norway came the closest, but I'm not sure what the status of that is.

This means that all other developers, MediaMonkey included, have to reverse engineer each update by Apple, which requires time. Remember that Apple purposely changes their code to block out third party developers and tries to make it a difficult as possible to gain access to their hardware. This means that with each new firmware/software release the developers have to start reverse engineering the code to update MediaMonkey and this can take a while depending on how difficult Apple has made it this time.

Your options as a user are:
1) Don't by Apple or any other brand that actively breaks functionality of third party solutions
2) Visit the forums of the third party developer, like MediaMonkey, and look or ask if the newest firmware is still compatible with the software. If not, hold off on upgrading until a compatible version is released.

[cmx]

As an example of user frustration let me give you my current situation.

Files are corrupted on a 3g phone according to "Geniuses" at Apple. This is a business phone not a toy.
I need to restore to factory settings.
I don't have itunes 9 installed nor do I plan to until I am sure all compatibility issues are worked out.
itunes 8 does not let you chose what version of iphone OS you want...only 3.1 is available.


So, what do I do?...another two months of no music or go back to itunes for this one phone? Or maybe never.....

Also I'm not sure if it common knowledge...but if you upgrade to iphone 3.1 OS it may be impossible to jailbreak or unlock the phone right now. Apple is really playing hardball with the iphone.

There evidently is NO WAY to downgrade to 3.0 baseband firmware after 3.1 is loaded (maybe possible with original hash keys, I have mine on file with Cydia)
The jailbreak software will have to be updated and split off baseband and main software....possibly no more free tethering....but we are screwed either way.
http://blog.iphone-dev.org/


SO BE WARNED- DO NOT UPGRADE TO 3.1 IF YOU WANT ANY FREEDOM WITH THE IPHONE CURRENTLY.

[rusty]

Hi,

Thanks for the feedback--this is something that's frustrating to me as well, though my anger tends to be directed at Apple.

I know that compatibility with iPhones is a nasty/recurring problem, but our inability to get a solution in your hands in a timely fashion is unlikely to improve in the future The reasons for this are that

• a) contrary to what some have suggested, we cannot subscribe to the Apple Developer Program and get pre-release firmware -- subscribing to the program requires Ventis to agree to not perform any reverse engineering on the included Apple software.
  b) Even if we did have early access to iPhone firmware, there's no guarantee that we'd have a fix ready in time especially considering that Apple can change the cryptographic routines at the last minute.

Possible approaches to this are:

• a) Continue devoting resources to iPhone synchronization and provide compatible software as early as we can.
  b) Remove iPhone synchronization and focus on other features.

I tend towards option a), despite the frustration that it sometimes causes, though some alternative music organizers have already moved towards option b).

Wrt a similar complaint re. Auto Tagging from Amazon, the changes _had_ been implemented long in advance, but were implemented incorrectly, and we were admittedly slower than I'd have liked in getting a fix out. I don't think that this is a general pattern of MediaMonkey development, though.

Wrt better communication of such problems, I'm not sure what the best solution is. MM _is_ generally compatible with iPhones/iPods, though at times it might not be, so I'm not planning to change our marketing with every new Apple release. We try to indicate these limitations very loudly and clearly in the forum, but perhaps such 'breaking news' should appear directly in our 'News' column as well (on the front page).

-Rusty

[Impulse]

I have no problems whatsoever with your current approach rusty, and I agree this is all Apple's fault... There's no reason they need to implement so much security on a media player (at 'least not for the purpose of sync'ing media). If advertising the current status of MM compatibility with certain versions of the OS on the front-page makes people more at ease then go for it...

Me? Even tho I like my iPod a lot, I'll probably look at the ZuneHD or other alternatives in the future to avoid all these hassles (along w/a few other things that are inherent in any Apple device). It's a shame because I'm digging the ability to play back music from my iPod touch over Bluetooth... And I like the apps, but music and the browser are what I use most so I'm willing to sacrifice the rest.

I actually upgraded to 3.1 just the other day for the BT capabilities so I could use it with a Kensington BT device in my car, didn't even remember to check if MM was still compatible with 3.1... And I had been putting off the update to 3.0 exactly because of this, heh. I'm kicking myself for not upgrading to 3.0 sooner so I could hold off on 3.1 instead, which didn't add a whole lot. So I got screwed and I'm no waiting for your fix for 3.1. I harbor no ill will towards MM tho.

I think the updated iPhone.dll should be part of the test builds tho, it was probably pretty hard to find for anyone that wasn't monitoring that one thread jiri kept updating with it's status.

[Teknojnky]

@ Rusty,

Perhaps a simple disclaimer on the iphone/compatibility bullet statement, indicating that iphone compatiblity is dependent and reactive to any changes that apple makes that break compatibility at any point in time.

This is obvious for most people, but on the internet there is always someone who will take a statement to be some type of 110% garuntee.

[Music Diva]

I also am extremely disgusted with the ability of this product to keep up with the changes going on at Apple. The product itself is superb- the support and continuing development is NOT. You have definately come up with a fine product- I just want to know where the money is going- certainly not to the development department.

I've just installed the new BETA hoping it will solve my issues. Hooray- it works with iTunes 9.0! Boo!- it doesn't work with my updated iPhone AGAIN!

Net result= "worthless software". (STILL advertised as working with the iPhone)

I have three options for Ventis Media:

1. Take some of my $60.00 I spent, and spend it on development for fixing the product and KEEPING it fixed.
2. Take some of my $60.00 I spent, give it to an attorney, and sue Apple for millions for their business practices that Microsoft so successfully got sued for time and again.
3. Refund my $60.00.

I'm not happy that I can't update from 2.2.1. But I also understand that it takes time to get third party sync working. I've been frustrated too, believe me. The new features of 3.0/3.1 are exactly what the iPhone needed. But if we complain too much, MM could go the way of the other people who quit trying to accomodate the iPhone. We don't want that. Just visit the forums before doing ANY updating of either iTunes or firmware. I will wait until the holidays for a stable version that actually fully works with 3.1 if need be.

As for options, I could be way off base, but I think a better option for Ventis may be to consult with people who know how to hack/jailbreak into Apple products. They have an early jailbreak available for 3.1(article on Gizmodo), but it doesn't work with the 3GS YET. However that was fast anyway, and those may be the kinds of people needed at Ventis. I'm not experienced in hacking Apple products or developing third party software to work with Apple, but it seems like hackers MAY be needed to get things moving faster. JMO, I don't know what kind of experienced people they have on their staff. I'm just wondering if the reason MM is slower than the jailbreakers is they don't have someone who can break the codes fast enough. But like I said, I could be way off base so take anything I say concerning options with a big grain of salt.

[Music Diva]

While I love MM, I have to admit that I am quite disappointed. This is is the second issue now that seems to have the MM staff reacting to a change late in the game as opposed to preemptively working on a solution. The Amazon art issue.. announced months in advance before MM staff scrambled to put out a version to answer the issue.. and now the iTunes 9/iPod/iPhone issue.. iPhone 3.1 & sdk was dropped back in June. And again, mad scramble to get a fix out while other companies released iTunes 9 & iPod/iPhone compatible softs on 9/9 & 9/10.

Again, don't get me wrong, I love MM and am not an Apple fan (however I do like the iPod & iPhone) But don't blame Apple for someone else's mistake. It isn't Apple's responsibility to make sure that software that is built using their libraries doesn't break, it is the developer. When you're dealing with dependency issues in software, it isn't the depended upon libraries that are at fault, it is your program.

I don't think that there is a better music management system out (especially for a 240 gig library) than MM. If I did, I'd be using it and not here complaining about MM not working with my new iPod (5th gen Nano), that requires iTunes 9. Looking forward to being able to only have to use MM again.

I'm curious, which companies put out iTunes 9 and 3.1 compatible syncing software?

[originaljunebug]

Any sort of ETA for a build (beta or otherwise) that will be compatibile with firmware 3.1? I want to synch my iPod Touch and cringe at the thought of using iTunes to do it.

[68rustang]

I just want to say it is nice to see this thread heading back towards constructive conversation. Some of you guys are WAY off base.

[odumrf]

This may sound simple but I just used system restore and rolled back to pre itunes 9. installation. It worked fine, MediaMonkey functionality came right back. iTunes doesn't work but so what, it wasn't what I primarily used anyway. I can get along without it until they fix whatever they messed up.

[jiri]

Those that still have problems with iTunes 9.0 (MM freezing at start, etc.): Please make sure you have the latest MM beta installed (check out About dialog) and in case you do, please generate a debug log and e-mail it to me.

re. support for iPhone 3.1 firmware - I have just uploaded the first testing version of the plug-in that works with the latest iPhone/Touch firmware. Check it out at http://www.mediamonkey.com/beta/d_iPhone.dll . Copy it to the latest beta installation only, otherwise it wouldn't work!

Jiri

[Guest]

Thanks for your effort !

I will try right now the new beta.

it's just remind me not to buy an iphone !