Issue with Search on Compilation albums [#18479]

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Davo
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Issue with Search on Compilation albums [#18479]

Post by Davo »

The Search function for Artists that appear on Compilation albums is flawed IMO. When i search for an Artist i only want to see the tracks relevant to that artist. If i then want to look at the complete album i would use "find more from same album"

The current process displays all the artists & their tracks on the compilation album & does not even highlight the artist you were searching for. So, to find the artist i have to search again through the album. This is clumsy & frustrating.
David
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Re: Issue with Search on Compilation albums

Post by Lowlander »

Can you please detail exactly how you execute search?

When I type Artist: value in the quick search it doesn't show files where the Artist doesn't match the value.
Davo
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Re: Issue with Search on Compilation albums

Post by Davo »

The only way i can replicate that is to be in the Album List view. If i change to the Grid View it displays the whole album.
I assume by "easy search' you mean when you just start typing in the header Bar. If i do that it always seems to default to "search in current view". artist:miles davis doesn't seem to work here. If i change to "Global search" i get a correct result but only in the Album list view not the Grid View

Also, if i select the artist in the Artist sub node the Compilation album will correctly show only the tracks belonging to that artist but only in the Album list view.
If i select the Compilation album from the albums listed in the Media Tree it displays the complete details.
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Re: Issue with Search on Compilation albums

Post by Lowlander »

It sounds like everything is working as designed. When expanding in the Grid View it's designed to show the full Album. The Artist > Album sub-node is also designed to show the full Album.
Davo
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Re: Issue with Search on Compilation albums

Post by Davo »

ok, can't say i like the design much.
Could you explain what "search in current view" means and what it actually searches on. ie when you mean "view" do you mean like Grid view or List view or is it something to do with the node your on?
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Re: Issue with Search on Compilation albums

Post by Lowlander »

Yes, it searches within the filelisting to either filter or jump to what you searched for.
Davo
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Re: Issue with Search on Compilation albums

Post by Davo »

I'm still a bit confused about search & various artist compilations in the Grid View. I'll give 2 examples:
I've selected the Music node (which is the top level) & i am in the Grid view.
1. in the left hand search area, i type artist:miles davis
Result - Nothing (blank screen)

2. in the left hand search area i type miles davis
Result - Finds all albums where "miles davis" is the artist /album artist but none of the compilation albums where "miles davis" is the artist.
David
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Re: Issue with Search on Compilation albums

Post by Lowlander »

There are 2 search boxes: https://www.mediamonkey.com/wiki/WebHelp:Search/5.0

Left is contextual, finds what's in the Filelisting. Right is global, finds what's in the library.
Davo
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Re: Issue with Search on Compilation albums

Post by Davo »

In the examples i gave I am at the highest node (Music) therefore the filelisting is the entire library. According to your own definition the Grid view is just another view of the filelisting. The 2 examples i gave aren't consistent with that. ie Why do i get no result at example 1 & a partial result at example 2
Also when you say the left search is Contextual i notice that there is a drop down menu which includes Global Search.
David
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Re: Issue with Search on Compilation albums

Post by Lowlander »

When choosing global search it switches to the right side search box.

Problems with Grid added as: https://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=18479
Barry4679
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Re: Issue with Search on Compilation albums

Post by Barry4679 »

Davo wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:18 pm In the examples i gave I am at the highest node (Music) therefore the filelisting is the entire library. According to your own definition the Grid view is just another view of the filelisting. The 2 examples i gave aren't consistent with that. ie Why do i get no result at example 1 & a partial result at example 2
Also when you say the left search is Contextual i notice that there is a drop down menu which includes Global Search.
This area is so complex. And I think that LowLander is not on the same track as your query.

1. Grid (by Album) View. This is designed to find albums. It doesn't look at tracks. The only thing that it searches is Album Artist, Album title, and Date released, regardless of what you type.. ... In this view they ignore the sort syntax ... This means that "artist:miles davis" finds nothing because you have no album with exactly that title, nor one by an albumartist whose name is exactly "artist:miles davis". ...BTW I think that this was a bad decision on their part. You should be able to override their AI-like search decision ... ie. maybe you wanted to take explicit control and find all albums where Miles Davis contributed at least one track. I think that it is beyond bad to just turn a blind eye to the search syntac format ... especially since if you hover of the sort control box, the tooltip says that the search syntax formats are available.

The situation that that they were trying to avoid was if you to type Miles davis, and then they show you an album by another artist, just because Miles davis was co-created on one of the tracks. They were concerned that this would cause confusion, but the cure is worse than the ailment IMO.

As I said above, it is designed to find albums. When it finds an album, it finds the whole album, meaning that if it is a composite album, these tracks may belong to different artists.

So this last factor makes Grid (by Album) view not the correct place for your intended miles davis search.

2 List Views. These views look at all track tags, so Implicitly these views are All Tags searches. ie. miles davis finds all tracks that have the words miles and davis anywhere in any tags. ... ie a track named "miles and miles" by Jerry Davis would qualify. If you only wanted Miles Davis tracks, it is better to search with quote marks "Miles Davis" ... that will only finds tracks where miles and davis are adjacent and in the same tag

You can override the All Tags nature of the search via the sort syntax. If you were in either of the List views a search of artist:"miles davis" should have given you what you want. See here, the two albums towards the top are composite albums, and it has shown the single Miles track on each album, but not all the other tracks.

If my query was albumartist:"Miles Davis" it would have excluded the composite album, and just shown albums belonging to Miles Davis. nor would it have found the Michel Legrand at the bottom of the image linked to above

3. Contextual. ... This is a convenience function. Instead of searching the whole database, it allows you confine your search to just the collection that you are currently viewing ... ie. maybe you have a collection which just includes albums you have ripped in the last rolling year, it just searches tracks on those albums. ... As LowLander mentioned global search are started via the the looking glass on the right, and contextual searches are triggered by just typing something, while focus is within the main panel.
Want a dark skin for MM5? This is the one that works best for me .. elegant, compact & clear.
Davo
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Re: Issue with Search on Compilation albums [#18479]

Post by Davo »

@Barry
Thank you for the explanation. I was starting to realise that perhaps searching in Grid View was only matching album Artist/Album. I was puzzled though because it was not consistent with their own syntax. I'm glad you clarified that.

Barry says ...... "ie. maybe you wanted to take explicit control and find all albums where Miles Davis contributed at least one track"

That is exactly what i want, no matter what view i am in.

I guess Contextual searches are not so relevant for me because i don't use Collections

In Grid view with Global search if i search artist:miles davis it does present the compilation albums but if you open the album it gives you all the tracks & highlights the Miles Davis track(s) I would prefer that it only presented the Miles Davis tracks which is what it does in the Album/List view.
David
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Barry4679
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Re: Issue with Search on Compilation albums [#18479]

Post by Barry4679 »

Davo wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:25 am In Grid view with Global search if i search artist:miles davis it does present the compilation albums but if you open the album it gives you all the tracks & highlights the Miles Davis track(s) I would prefer that it only presented the Miles Davis tracks which is what it does in the Album/List view.
David, the other thing that you need to understand is the difference between "navigation" and "filtering"

Navigation: Obviously this covers how you get to somewhere. ... So say you could go somewhere either via the motorway or via a side road. The navigation choices are different; probably the motorway is faster and easier. But either way, once you get there, the result is the same.

You navigate when using the Media Tree, or use the breadcrumb menu (Music>AlbumArtist>Miles Davis)

Filtering: is not like going anywhere. The computer is grabbing things that meet your filter criteria, and bringing them to you.

Filtering is using the Looking Glass (global) facility ... eg. albumartist:"Miles Davis"

Now to get to the point :D

When you use the Grid (by Album) view, and filter to artist:"Miles Davis", you are looking at a filtered view of albums which contain at least one track by Miles Davis.

When you click on one of those albums, you are navigating into that album. So like with the motorway and side road, MM5 has no interest in how you found that album ... you have navigated, and it shows you (all) the contents of that album.

That's just the way that it is,

And if you think about it, on another day, for another purpose, that may be exactly what you want ... eg. show me albums with the Moonlight Sonata (filtering), via sonata 14 beethoven ... I have 5 versions, I am tossing up between Horowitz, Kempf, Schnabel and Barenboim ... I want to see everything else on the album before making my choice.

The only way to see exactly what you want, is to filter the List By Album view ... that is a track filter and shows you just what you want to see ... and BTW, if you want to see the other contents in the album, click the album name in the summary column .. that will navigate you into the album. And the back button (or backspace key) will navigate you back out again.
Want a dark skin for MM5? This is the one that works best for me .. elegant, compact & clear.
Davo
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Re: Issue with Search on Compilation albums [#18479]

Post by Davo »

In broad terms i do understand navigation & filtering, my issue is how they are applied in the MM5 search process. I would prefer that filtering takes precedence, no matter the view. In our "miles davis" example the Grid view correctly displays the album that contains one or more "miles davis" tracks, I then have to navigate into the album to find them, however at that point it forgets the filtering & displays all the tracks. To my mind that is an incomplete search.

Say i'm looking for a wrench (track) & i know it's in a cupboard (album) in my garage. I ask my buddy, let's call him MM5 to go & find it. MM5 says ok i'll find the cupboard but you're going to have to hunt around inside it to find what your looking for. Gee, thanks mate.

Anyway, as you say "That's just the way it is" & it's not the end of the world because MM5 provides other ways to get the result i want.
David
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Davo
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Re: Issue with Search on Compilation albums [#18479]

Post by Davo »

Cont...
Surprise surprise. If i do an advanced search :
Artist = miles davis
Album Artist = Various Artists
Then in the Grid view when i navigate to the album it only displays the miles davis tracks
David
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