BUGS... Non-Lyric Tags changed when Auto-Updating Lyrics...

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Barry4679
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Re: BUGS... Non-Lyric Tags changed when Auto-Updating Lyrics...

Post by Barry4679 »

leeuniverse wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 2:35 pm Also, the bug Barry reported, seems like a "feature" to me, because according to him the "way" he was doing it, MediaMonkey was actually doing exactly what I was wanting and it should have been, ONLY updating the Lyrics Tag, not touching others.
Looks like I did not explain the "bug" properly, and have confused you.

The panel where you trigger and work with Auto Tag, has a button which allows you to change Auto-Tag parameters before it runs. The "bug" was that Auto-tag was ignoring any setting changes that you made for the current run.
i.e. the setting changes were made, but not used for the first run.

I don't that you would have appreciated that as a feature. :)
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leeuniverse
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Re: BUGS... Non-Lyric Tags changed when Auto-Updating Lyrics...

Post by leeuniverse »

Lowlander wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 3:49 pm 1) As indicated previously. Auto-Tag settings affect which tags Auto-Tag looks up. It will only lookup (and change) the selected tags. This is independent from how MediaMonkey writes tags when you make a tag changes. Then it does rewrite all tags with the database value, no matter if you changed 1 or many tags. Generally the database values should already be the same as the files tags, thus no actual changes (other than where tags were written differently than MediaMonkey writes them) would occur for most users, other than the tag(s) that Auto-Tag looked up.
First, appreciate you all trying to hash this out with me...

Second, what the flying freeky??? This is exactly where I'm having a problem.
You state:
Auto-Tag settings affect which tags Auto-Tag looks up. It will only lookup (and change) the selected tags. This is independent from how MediaMonkey writes tags when you make a tag changes.
Now, do you not see that the above statement is entirely "contradictory" to the below statement?
Then it does rewrite all tags with the database value, no matter if you changed 1 or many tags.
You can't look up and ONLY change certain tags, if those rules are then IGNORED and ALL tags are overwritten according to the database, as you've said previously upon save???
I mean, I do not understand what you are doing here...? It makes no sense whatsoever...

I get having the ability for peoples tags to be ALL AUTO for those who like that, run and forget, not caring about what's in your tags. I get it.
However, a LOT of people "edit" their tags, their images for various reasons I'm sure you're well aware of.
Thus, that is what those particular settings are SUPPOSED to do.... Allowing you to "choose" what get's auto-updated, and what doesn't. Like me all along, I was just wanting to update Lyrics, instead, the program updated Lyrics and then also decided to update whatever OTHER tags it wanted to, like you said, per your database.

Nooooo....!!!! You can't have a program like this work like that. Yes, have a Setting for those who want ALL Auto, but you should also have separate settings which are "selective", that we "choose" what's auto and what's not. Again, what's even the point of those Settings that allows us to choose what's updated if the rules aren't even enforced, as I showed above, they end up IGNORED. That doesn't even make sense???

NONE of this makes sense, and it makes no sense that you would override your customer's "manual" set Tags without their permission? I mean, let me give you one of MANY scenarios... Say your database currently doesn't have a bunch of tags. A person manually edits all their tags and images, to all nice. Then one day, your database has information, and then just OVERWRITES all their work. What about information that isn't accurate? What if there are tags people don't want within their music files? I mean do you not understand what I'm saying here...? This is a SERIOUS problem that needs to be fixed.

You MUST give people the "options", to enforce the rules they set for what Tags they want to update and don't want to have updated/changed. That's the whole purpose of that section, yet it's "overridden" by your database, forcing the saving of tag information that you DID NOT want touched.

Anyway, I don't know what else I can say or how I can say it... This is a big problem, and I'm amazed nobody has complained about it yet. You DON'T OVERWRITE PEOPLES TAGS unless they want them to be.

Sorry for my passion, it's just had I not had a backup that wasn't "fully" touched, I would have lost a couple 100 MORE HOURS of time having to redo all my files. This was NOT a happy experience at all... A customer should not have had to have gone through this.
Last edited by leeuniverse on Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
leeuniverse
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Re: BUGS... Non-Lyric Tags changed when Auto-Updating Lyrics...

Post by leeuniverse »

Barry4679 wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:47 am
leeuniverse wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 2:35 pm Also, the bug Barry reported, seems like a "feature" to me, because according to him the "way" he was doing it, MediaMonkey was actually doing exactly what I was wanting and it should have been, ONLY updating the Lyrics Tag, not touching others.
Looks like I did not explain the "bug" properly, and have confused you.

The panel where you trigger and work with Auto Tag, has a button which allows you to change Auto-Tag parameters before it runs. The "bug" was that Auto-tag was ignoring any setting changes that you made for the current run.
i.e. the setting changes were made, but not used for the first run.

I don't that you would have appreciated that as a feature. :)
Yep, definitely would not be a feature I would want...
BTW, what do you think about what I said above to Lowlander?

Also, I'm confused about something else you've said many times, about that panel in which auto-tag is running.
It's "already" running when that panel opens up for me... Sure, there's the Options button there also, but it's going already before you can even touch that button. Are you in a different panel?
Barry4679
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Re: BUGS... Non-Lyric Tags changed when Auto-Updating Lyrics...

Post by Barry4679 »

leeuniverse wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:39 am BTW, what do you think about what I said above to Lowlander?
I have learnt more about AutoTag thanks to your posts.
I had not used it much because I set tags as I want when I rip albums, and any changes I want, I do individually manually. Am not keen a batch process grinding though my tags. The big red warning at the top of here was enough to put me off.

Like you I assumed that the the Auto-Tagging>Metadata settings in Tools>options>Library>MetadataLookup controlled what would be written to your tracks. And I still think that was a reasonable assumption.

In my case I don't use external tools to tag my tracks. This means that my starting point is the my database tags are identical to my track tags. So the way that Auto-tag is implemented would never have impacted me. My guess is that this would be the case for the majority of MM users.

I don't know why they implemented the write-to-tracks phase of Auto-tag to operate outside of the option settings.

I have mixed feelings about it TBH:
  • OTOH for someone like me if is good that MM is taking every opportunity to keep my database and track tags in synch
  • But for someone like you it has been destructive.
I do think that you have been letdown by the documentation, and the complete lack of clarity in the UI. And I do think that it is an important issue. I gave some suggestions, but I don't know whether will attend to it.

The issue would have avoided for you if you has rescanned your tracks before using Auto-Tag, or if you were using the MM5 Monitor facility to auto-detect and auto-sync itself to changes made by external tools like Picard and mp3Tag ... But you didn't know that, and neither would anyone else looking at the documentation or UI.

leeuniverse wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:39 am Also, I'm confused about something else you've said many times, about that panel in which auto-tag is running.
It's "already" running when that panel opens up for me... Sure, there's the Options button there also, but it's going already before you can even touch that button. Are you in a different panel?
I wrote that when I assumed that those settings were going to be used by the write-back-to-tracks phase.
This turned out to be wrong.
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leeuniverse
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Re: BUGS... Non-Lyric Tags changed when Auto-Updating Lyrics...

Post by leeuniverse »

Barry4679 wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:07 am
leeuniverse wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:39 am BTW, what do you think about what I said above to Lowlander?
I have learnt more about AutoTag thanks to your posts.
I had not used it much because I set tags as I want when I rip albums, and any changes I want, I do individually manually. Am not keen a batch process grinding though my tags. The big red warning at the top of here was enough to put me off.

Like you I assumed that the the Auto-Tagging>Metadata settings in Tools>options>Library>MetadataLookup controlled what would be written to your tracks. And I still think that was a reasonable assumption.

In my case I don't use external tools to tag my tracks. This means that my starting point is the my database tags are identical to my track tags. So the way that Auto-tag is implemented would never have impacted me. My guess is that this would be the case for the majority of MM users.

I don't know why they implemented the write-to-tracks phase of Auto-tag to operate outside of the option settings.

I have mixed feelings about it TBH:
  • OTOH for someone like me if is good that MM is taking every opportunity to keep my database and track tags in synch
  • But for someone like you it has been destructive.
I do think that you have been letdown by the documentation, and the complete lack of clarity in the UI. And I do think that it is an important issue. I gave some suggestions, but I don't know whether will attend to it.

The issue would have avoided for you if you has rescanned your tracks before using Auto-Tag, or if you were using the MM5 Monitor facility to auto-detect and auto-sync itself to changes made by external tools like Picard and mp3Tag ... But you didn't know that, and neither would anyone else looking at the documentation or UI.

leeuniverse wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:39 am Also, I'm confused about something else you've said many times, about that panel in which auto-tag is running.
It's "already" running when that panel opens up for me... Sure, there's the Options button there also, but it's going already before you can even touch that button. Are you in a different panel?
I wrote that when I assumed that those settings were going to be used by the write-back-to-tracks phase.
This turned out to be wrong.
Thank you for your input and support Barry....

And everything you said is entirely correct about the issues, my experience, frustrations, feelings, etc.
I could not have expected they didn't allow "manual" control over our tags, that an area of Settings which seems entirely designed to prevent the automatic overriding of Tags as WE CHOOSE, doesn't even do that, and I still have no clue its purpose then, because they say that's what it's supposed to do, but then ultimately it "doesn't" do that because on "Save" ALL tags are overwritten per what's contained in their database.

I totally get having a music player in which people can use and not care about tags, but this is really bad for those of us who DO care about our tags, and might want to use "some" auto-functions, like to help add Cover Art, or Lyrics, or add any other tag. Nobody is saying MM shouldn't do what it's currently doing, but that us manual editing individuals should have some PROTECTION. Our Tags aren't being protected. We should be able to choose what's overwritten. This is BASIC to me, and blows my mind MM operated like this.

Anyway, thanks again, you've perfectly summarized the issues...
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Re: BUGS... Non-Lyric Tags changed when Auto-Updating Lyrics...

Post by Not_tech_savy »

leeuniverse wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:10 pm
I'm using 2511, get that if you don't have it already.

Hey Lee, I have a theory on auto-tag. I know you just want lyrics but I think you need it to search for a couple other fields for it to accurately and quickly pull lyrics.
So in auto-tag options menu remove Songcoleta and Seek a Lyric (i think those sites are dead), then in tags to search for in this order do Title, Album, Lyrics.
My tags to search for looks like this Title,Album,Date,Artist,Disc #,Track #,Lyrics and I believe changing that order affects speed and accuracy (Idk why or if its in my head :lol: ). You may be able to just do title, album, and lyrics it might work better if you set it up how mine is but that's a lot more stuff you'd have to change back if it's wrong
(Again I know it's just lyrics you want, but the auto-tag Database may have the wrong info, even though yours is right)

- Side Note -
- Could you try a batch of 100 songs the way I suggested and let me know if that worked better?
-- (OMDB is for video tags)

- Uncheck the prefer faster method (You're tags may be right, but if the DB is wrong it may need the extra help)
--- And Idk if it only fingerprints if title is missing. Just trying to make auto-tag as accurate as possible. The way I read it, I believe prefer faster method goes off your tags and should in theory only fill in what's missing, and unchecking that it will go ahead and check and change the fields you want to look up even if they have tags already. (apparently every one is confused on how auto tag works though sooo idk)

- If it changes to wrong tags click the song title and click search via fingerprint (even if you uncheck the prefer faster method, about 70% of the time fingerprinting title of the song will change all info too or back to the correct one. Keep an eye on all of your part 2's, Live, and Remixes, it loves changing those.) (I watch the status and says its fingerprinting, and yet I can also click title have that search by fingerprint {{only after it has completed looking up all other tags or it'll freeze}} and it brings up different info. So maybe after initial FP, running it again will have it start off with new tags which leads it in a different direction, Idk.)
-- Also if you click a blue changed tag and change back to old, it doesn't always change the rest of the tags back as well. Keep an eye out for that. Oh and I think even changing back to old if you don't do it via FP it'll keep the wrong lyrics. again idk some times it does some times it doesn't.

- Maybe change confidence percentage thing to 85% but the higher you set it the more time it takes looking for correct info. (Mine is 75% but I was messing with MM DB settings and managed to reset all of my tags.)

-Don't use the addon by Fizzjob It'll add a couple lines then add Web address instead of lyrics. Hopefully he fixes that soon.

-I believe the auto-tag info comes from sites not run by the MM guys, and the databases are user submitted info. So accuracy can be iffy.

-A good amount of my mainstream stuff also doesn't get lyrics added which seems weird but I'd rather have nothing then it be wrong.
- Here's an example of some lyrics I got off Auto-tag -
((This whole tune is full of whispering and background vocals...If you can make
them out, and they're right...I may just send you a small cash reward.)
Ad mala patrata haec sunt theatra parata.
(bes...))
- That's it dude just gave up lol

- Idk about other programs or mp3tag. but I've noticed playing a song can bring up lyrics when auto tag will not. I don't believe that changes other tags. If all else fails sort by no lyrics, throw on a movie, press play on your music hit next song (for me every 5 seconds, depending on how good your internet is) and add your lyrics that way.

And Lee I understand how frustrating it is having things set up perfectly, you try something and now its all wrong. I suggest having multiple back ups. after scouring your MM info and making sure its all correct, update your music folder. Have one or two backups on an external hard drive that remains untouched. and if you opt for having two on extHD update the second one maybe yearly.
I misunderstood what volume leveling does and didn't realize for several months what I had done and was updating my 1 backup around the same time and apparently there's no way too tell what has been leveled. That's the lesson I learned lol
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