GPM being discontinued in favor of YTM

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Chondog
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GPM being discontinued in favor of YTM

Post by Chondog »

So it was announced today that GPM is finally being discontinued and will force users to migrate their content to YTM if they want to continue with their music service. Since MM5 has some GPM integration, what does this mean for the future of this functionality in MM5? Google has been talking about this for years, so I'm sure the devs are aware.
Ludek
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Re: GPM being discontinued in favor of YTM

Post by Ludek »

Then I guess we will need to integrate YTM like we integrated Spotify recently ;-)
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Re: GPM being discontinued in favor of YTM

Post by Barry4679 »

Chondog wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 2:16 pm Google has been talking about this for years, so I'm sure the devs are aware.
[pedant warning] It won't be yearS until sometime next week :)
YTM was announced, with suggestion of GPM closedown, here in May 2018
Anyone who already has a Google Play Music subscription gets YouTube Music as part of that membership. Play Music isn’t going away yet, though it’s hard to see what future purpose there will be to Google sustaining two services and apps that overlap to quite such a degree.
And MM5 was feature complete, and (nearly) ready to release by then. :wink:
jiri wrote: Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:24 am I can't give a better estimate, but we'd like to release it soon, roughly this summer.
Jiri
Anyway, it is a great pity ... Ludek had a done a great job with MM5|GPM integration, hopefully he can resurrect much of it.
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Single Line Display for now playing?

Post by Barry4679 »

musziqluvher wrote: Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:28 am Another addition I'm waiting on is integration with streaming music services. A few yrs ago I read something about services like Amazon Music being added. It's the only music service that I have, and I highly dislike Amazon's Music player.
The streaming service that they integrated with was Google Play Music, not Amazon. Unfortunately Google has announced plans to discontinue that service, and shutdown has already begun in some markets.

It is a pity because they had achieved a high degree of integration, between your in-house music collection, and your streamed GPM collection:
  • adopt selected streamed tracks into your MM db, so you can track play history for those streamed tracks, and use them in MM playlists, ... and could play the playlists locally, or sync them up into your Google library so that they could be used when away from home
  • enhanced sync of your tracks up into Google's servers, where Google would both store and stream from them for you, at no cost
Google are currently migrating all their customers into Youtube Music, which has been enhanced to have many of the Google Play Music features.
MediaMonkey said that they would alter MM5 to integrate into Youtube Music, but there has been no information about progress. ... An update about this would be welcome.

Since then, there has been some limited integration with Spotify, but I can't test nor evaluate that.

MM5 does integrate with various Internet locations: Dropbox, One Drive, and Google Drive. ... See the Devices & Services node in the MM5 Media Tree.
You can sync local tracks with those locations ... ie. tracks there can become part of your MM db, and|or MM can sync tracks to those locations. So you can receive a subset of the advantages that were available with Google Play Music, but they don't come with 30-40 million library of streamed tracks to enrich your own collection.
musziqluvher
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Re: Single Line Display for now playing?

Post by musziqluvher »

Barry4679 wrote: Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:07 am
musziqluvher wrote: Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:28 am Another addition I'm waiting on is integration with streaming music services. A few yrs ago I read something about services like Amazon Music being added. It's the only music service that I have, and I highly dislike Amazon's Music player.
The streaming service that they integrated with was Google Play Music, not Amazon. Unfortunately Google has announced plans to discontinue that service, and shutdown has already begun in some markets.

It is a pity because they had achieved a high degree of integration, between your in-house music collection, and your streamed GPM collection:
  • adopt selected streamed tracks into your MM db, so you can track play history for those streamed tracks, and use them in MM playlists, ... and could play the playlists locally, or sync them up into your Google library so that they could be used when away from home
  • enhanced sync of your tracks up into Google's servers, where Google would both store and stream from them for you, at no cost
Google are currently migrating all their customers into Youtube Music, which has been enhanced to have many of the Google Play Music features.
MediaMonkey said that they would alter MM5 to integrate into Youtube Music, but there has been no information about progress. ... An update about this would be welcome.

Since then, there has been some limited integration with Spotify, but I can't test nor evaluate that.

MM5 does integrate with various Internet locations: Dropbox, One Drive, and Google Drive. ... See the Devices & Services node in the MM5 Media Tree.
You can sync local tracks with those locations ... ie. tracks there can become part of your MM db, and|or MM can sync tracks to those locations. So you can receive a subset of the advantages that were available with Google Play Music, but they don't come with 30-40 million library of streamed tracks to enrich your own collection.
I"m good on all of that. I am pretty deep into Google services but I'm def not signing up for YouTube Music. I've been with Amazon since 2000 or so. I prefer my music to be local. I only recently adapted to streaming when I signed up for Amazon Unlimited (as a prime customer already). The only reason I use Amazon's desktop program is because it provides HD music, which the web version does not. I usually use the unlimited service to listen to music and buy it later if like it.
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Peke
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Re: Single Line Display for now playing?

Post by Peke »

Hi,
FYI ATM there is no YTM Api for us to integrate with MM.

As noted here https://support.google.com/youtubemusic ... 1756?hl=en and only API I have found is https://developers.google.com/youtube/v3

Other dev communitiesalso note that YTM is still half baked https://www.xda-developers.com/youtube- ... usic-more/
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Barry4679
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Re: Single Line Display for now playing?

Post by Barry4679 »

Thanks Peke, but I don't agree with your assessment of the situation.

Peke wrote: Sat Aug 08, 2020 11:00 am FYI ATM there is no YTM Api for us to integrate with MM.
That was also the exact situation when you integrated MM5 to GPM, ie. no official api ... by his own admission Ludek reverse engineered from what was available, and got an excellent result.

It is the same situation now with Youtube Music ... there are community projects, see here
The purpose of this library is to automate interactions with YouTube Music, such as retrieving your library content, managing playlists and uploading songs. To achieve this, it emulates web requests that would occur if you performed the same actions in your web browser.
including this
Playlists:
  • create and delete playlists
  • modify playlists: edit metadata, add/move/remove tracks
  • get playlist contents
Uploads:
  • Upload songs and remove them again
  • List uploaded songs, artists and albums
It seems to me, that it covers the key points of the excellent MM5<->Web integration that you achieved with GPM.

And the thread you quoted from, as showing evidence that nothing was possible, is approx two years old.

And did you read this thread that you linked to?
Peke wrote: Sat Aug 08, 2020 11:00 am Other dev communitiesalso note that YTM is still half baked https://www.xda-developers.com/youtube- ... usic-more/
I read that thread ... it contains only positive comments, and nothing to support your comment.

I understand that you are all probably very busy getting what is left of MM5 to become stable, and distractions are unwelcome
But it is a lack of your will to address the loss of the MM5-GPM functionality that is stopping progress, not the lack of api availability, as you claim, IMO.

I am disappointed about the Google migration to YTM, but Google seem to be actively upgrading the platform to keep faith with their customers who use the service, and who have uploaded their libraries there.

The GPM<->MM5 integration was the piece of MM5 that I personally most valued. It is disappointing if you are stepping back from that. There is a big gap that MM can fill with streaming services like YTM, where the library browsing and playlist building facilities are beyond crappy, but the richness of the streamed contents is good, and the upload policies are generous, and the subscription price is good too.

Can you transfer the section of this thread which addresses the GPM YTM topic, to this thread please?
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Re: GPM being discontinued in favor of YTM

Post by Peke »

Hi,
I merged Topics partially.

To reply: I guess I was not clear I like YTM look and we are looking into it in several bugs like https://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=15487 (Dev private talk) where it is pointed that we are not sure what Google wants with its YT API. Certainly no matter how good integration is time to develop GPM support will go in vein on December.

And yes YTM reactions are positive. I only wonder if you UL/Migrate GPM -> YTM will you need to pay for YT Premium as It is still not available everywhere or your tracks are lost. Well I tried to test that theory and will end in losing all GPM tracks, due the fact when I tried to migrate my GPM to YT account I got message "Change the account to upload. You are signed in to an account that does not support uploading. To upload music, switch to your personal Google Account. Learn more" which means my GPM account can't be migrated to my YT account I keep Separate from Google Account.

AT the end I'll quote Ludek from https://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewt ... 87#p468087
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Barry4679
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Re: GPM being discontinued in favor of YTM

Post by Barry4679 »

Peke wrote: Sun Aug 09, 2020 6:25 pm To reply: I guess I was not clear I like YTM look and we are looking into it in several bugs like https://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=15487 (Dev private talk) where it is pointed that we are not sure what Google wants with its YT API.
There is not much point posting a link to a locked post ... or should I be looking into my emails for a password :o

Thanks for clarification ... that sounds more hopeful than your previous post

Peke wrote: Sun Aug 09, 2020 6:25 pm I only wonder if you UL/Migrate GPM -> YTM will you need to pay for YT Premium as It is still not available everywhere or your tracks are lost. Well I tried to test that theory and will end in losing all GPM tracks, due the fact when I tried to migrate my GPM to YT account I got message "Change the account to upload. You are signed in to an account that does not support uploading. To upload music, switch to your personal Google Account. Learn more" which means my GPM account can't be migrated to my YT account I keep Separate from Google Account.
I don't know that answer that question. I have a premium family account to GPM, because my kids and grand kids use it.

Googles previous offer to house, and stream from, up to 50,000 of your own tracks, at no cost, did seem ridiculously, and unsustainably generous.
I pay a total of $12 per month, to house up 50,000 tracks each(!) for 5 people, and for all of us to be able for all to stream from the GPM library of 40+ million tracks.

I don't personally use it too much, but I can stream from my own collection when away from home. ... And I see it a backup of last resort of my collection that I have built over a lifetime, even if they have downgraded my flac tracks to 320 mpg files ... If multiple disasters happened, and i had lost every thing, I would probably be OK with that.

The thing that stitches it all together for me is MM5 ... Google library browsing, and smart playlist building is the pits. ... Which is why I am more than a little interested in the topic of whether MM is going to facilitate the change for me from GPM -> YTM. I know that a lot of people feel the same.
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Re: GPM being discontinued in favor of YTM

Post by Peke »

Hi,
As i understood user uploaded files on YTM will not be available for family link, but only for user that uploaded it which I guess is different than GPM? (Maybe I am wrong, but I have setup my own cloud on QNAP and also despise Cloud storage as a service you pay for. Being 30+ years in IT made me not trusting anyone).

Link was for devs mostly to finalize what we are gonna do and publish official statement. I wasn't aware that some bugs were not public yet, so as you said I needed to clear things.

Re disaster: I had recent disaster where RAID5 on 4x6TB HDDs failed due the 7 relocated Bad blocks dispersed on 4 HDDs during power outrage and I bought 4x12TB New ones restored all data (took some time) and then sold those 6TB drives as there was no actual damage (each HDD have some reserved space for number of bad Blocks). I know we already talked about that and just closing GPM straighten my standpoint), I also have Streaming service for whole library in the car or anywhere with internet.
Best regards,
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Re: GPM being discontinued in favor of YTM

Post by Barry4679 »

Peke wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 6:45 am As i understood user uploaded files on YTM will not be available for family link, but only for user that uploaded it which I guess is different than GPM?
Not what I meant ... AFAIK each family member can upload up to 50,000 of their own tracks at no cost, for their own personal use. ... so max of 5 people, at 50,000 personal tracks each

Peke wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 6:45 amMaybe I am wrong, but I have setup my own cloud on QNAP and also despise Cloud storage as a service you pay for. Being 30+ years in IT made me not trusting anyone).
Strange thing for you to say. Do you work for Ventis, or volunteer? Would they exist without paying customers? There is nothing wrong with paying for s/w, or s/w as a service.

Your QNAP, and your house, could go up in a puff of smoke, or somebody could walk out of your back door, with your QNAP under his arm, or some piece of misbehaving s/w could encrypt it, or clear it to binary zeros, in the time it took you to drink your Espresso.
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Re: GPM being discontinued in favor of YTM

Post by Peke »

Barry4679 wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:13 am Not what I meant ... AFAIK each family member can upload up to 50,000 of their own tracks at no cost, for their own personal use. ... so max of 5 people, at 50,000 personal tracks each
If that is the case then all is OK. Will see how all that works out.
Barry4679 wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:13 amStrange thing for you to say. Do you work for Ventis, or volunteer? Would they exist without paying customers? There is nothing wrong with paying for s/w, or s/w as a service.
Work for Ventis, volunteer work ended in early 2003 ;)
Google certainly would.
Some service is reasonable to pay for, some not. Same thing ally for MM if provide services that are subscription based and worth to me (which means makes my life simpler and safer). Again my personal opinion, same thing with other service. Example: PLEX they discontinued my QNAP model from support because QNAP told them not to compile new versions for it. Resolution, few users and me (volunteer work) tried to reason them and gave them repurposed/repacked plugin without breaking the digital signature. End result is that they lost subscriber and we were not allowed to publish that QNAP plugin, but at least they finally accepted that they lied hardware do not support it (just before removed all threads and trace on their community forums). Good thing that plugin served its purpose.
Barry4679 wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:13 amYour QNAP, and your house, could go up in a puff of smoke, or somebody could walk out of your back door, with your QNAP under his arm, or some piece of misbehaving s/w could encrypt it, or clear it to binary zeros, in the time it took you to drink your Espresso.
6TB HDD wipe lasts 3 days and that is lots of Espresso :) If my house goes puff QNAP would be last thing I worry about. Regarding walked out, that would be more likely dragged out or chewed a bit meantime :) and again if they took it out then I guess it would also be least thing to worry about like with puff.

FYI YTM integration is under ongoing close investigation by Ludek. I didn't told you that ;)
Best regards,
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dtsig
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Re: GPM being discontinued in favor of YTM

Post by dtsig »

:lol:
Where's the db and ini stored
Reporting Bugs
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Re: GPM being discontinued in favor of YTM

Post by Barry4679 »

Yes, funny ... thanks. ... and good luck to Ludek, and his secret mission.
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Re: GPM being discontinued in favor of YTM

Post by Peke »

Hi,
FYI Berry: Fun fact is that in 1999 when unlawfully NATO bombed Serbia one Tomahawk or Air bomb hit house 250m from mine and all windows in my house went puff from detonation. So I doubt I would worry too much about few HDDs 8)
Best regards,
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