Sony NW-A105: Every song that is played is transferred again in next sync

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Snofru
Posts: 184
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:12 am

Sony NW-A105: Every song that is played is transferred again in next sync

Post by Snofru »

MMW 5.0.2338 portable, MMA 1.4.2.0951, WiFi sync

A very strange behaviour: Each song I play either on the PC with MMW or on the Sony NW-A105 (MMA) is completely copied again in the next sync. When I sync to my Galaxy S9 which has the same settings and use the same songs only the database is updated and the songs are not copied again (as it should be).

Some background:
I have a new Sony Walkman NW-A105 (which is an Android device, more or less a smartphone that cannot phone) with a 400 GB microSD card. I have synced my about 10000 songs (only MP3 and FLAC) per WiFi without issue which took about 16 hours. Songs play normally, everything seems to be fine. But when I sync again, all songs I have heard are copied again to MMA and it doesn't matter if they have been played with MMW or MMA.
Now I have a Galaxy S9 smartphone which has the same songs on it and syncing behaves normally. And the settings between NW-A105 and S9 are identical (with 2 exceptions: NW-A105 has the songs on MicroSD, S9 on internal memory; NW-A105 uses FLAC as it is, for S9 FLAC is converted to MP3), exactly the same music with the same playlists is used, settings in MMW and in MMA are all the same.
The behaviour is the same if I sync a FLAC or a MP3 file.

And another maybe important detail: If I play the songs a 2nd time after they have been copied again during sync they are not copied/overwritten again on sync, meaning the described unwanted behaviour only happens once per song.

Seems like I have 2 options now:
- Live with it and have long syncing times with a lot of data transfer.
- Delete everything on the NW-A105 and sync anew (another 16 h) and hope the issue is gone.

Pretty confusing for me, hopefully I could make my point clear.
MMW Version 4.1.31.1919 Portable
MMW Version 5.0.0.2415 Portable
Samsung Galaxy S9 and Sony NW-A105 with MMA Beta 1.4.2.0952
Ludek
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Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:00 am

Re: Sony NW-A105: Every song that is played is transferred again in next sync

Post by Ludek »

Hi,
during Wi-Fi sync MM5 exposes list of songs that have been changed (for MMA to get the new metadata).
I guess that this issue does not happen only after playing, but also after any track property change in MM5?
i.e. if you rate a track in MM5 and run Wi-Fi sync again, is the newly rated track re-downloaded to the device?

As for the re-downloading: MMA needs to have a reason to re-download it (e.g. file-size differs/changed (artwork in file tag has changed?) or e.g. auto-convert settings change for a track that needs to be converted to be downloaded in a new format ?)
Hard to guess, but this should be visible in MMA log, can you send MMA log after the sync and write the log ID here? I'll ask the MMA colleague to look into it to understand the reason why the tracks are re-downloaded for you.
My tip is that the file-size differs? i.e. if you try to compare the file on the PC and the file on the device, are the files same and with the same size ?
Lowlander
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Re: Sony NW-A105: Every song that is played is transferred again in next sync

Post by Lowlander »

Could be Lyrics or Artwork lookup that can be done automatically on playback of a file.
Lowlander (MediaMonkey user since 2003)
Snofru
Posts: 184
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:12 am

Re: Sony NW-A105: Every song that is played is transferred again in next sync

Post by Snofru »

Thanks for your quick replies:

MMA log is sent out: 42EXVPV51D

Yes, changing the rating alone also leads to a re-download due to sync (this is what happened when the log was created).

File size: I checked both an MP3 and a FLAC before and after sync. Before sync both file sizes are identical between PC and NW-A105. After the sync with re-download the size of mp3 is unchanged, FLAC is slightly different :-? (cannot say for 100% that I did everything the same with those files).

While syncing I get the message "Waiting for file to convert" but in fact there is no convert, MP3 stays MP3 and FLAC stays FLAC. There are no rules in the sync settings to convert MP3 or FLAC.

Lyrics or Artwork lookup: This is turned off both in MMA and in MMW. But even if there was a lookup it still can't explain why I have a re-download on one device and none on the other.
MMW Version 4.1.31.1919 Portable
MMW Version 5.0.0.2415 Portable
Samsung Galaxy S9 and Sony NW-A105 with MMA Beta 1.4.2.0952
Ludek
Posts: 4010
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:00 am

Re: Sony NW-A105: Every song that is played is transferred again in next sync

Post by Ludek »

Re log 42EXVPV51D - thanks, I asked MMA colleague to analyze it

Re "Waiting for file to convert" , couldn't it be by the ''[x] Level volume when synchronizing audio'' checkbox enabled here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/af1co1agk2l96 ... 6.png?dl=0
?

Could you try to disable all checkboxes on the Sync Profils > Auto-conversion tab, click [Apply] and test whether the issue is still replicable?
Without the file being converted or re-tagged I don't see how the file size could change.

Alternativerlly in Sync Profile > Tagging there are checkboxes to copy artwork to file tag and remove artwork from file tag: https://www.dropbox.com/s/84vfgs67zdtz5 ... 1.png?dl=0
Can you check that these checkboxes are disabled -- as it may also affect resulted file size.
Snofru
Posts: 184
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:12 am

Re: Sony NW-A105: Every song that is played is transferred again in next sync

Post by Snofru »

OK, did a lot of syncing and I found it! While the Tagging checkboxes and the auto-conversion settings have no effect, it is the -
Level Volume!

Level Volume checked and the re-download happens, unchecked and only the database is updated.

Now the difficult question: Why has Level Volume no effect on this on my Galaxy S9 but an effect on the Sony NW-A105?

And of course, I would like to continue to use Level Volume in the future.

BTW: Excellent suggestions, Ludek!
MMW Version 4.1.31.1919 Portable
MMW Version 5.0.0.2415 Portable
Samsung Galaxy S9 and Sony NW-A105 with MMA Beta 1.4.2.0952
Peke
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Re: Sony NW-A105: Every song that is played is transferred again in next sync

Post by Peke »

Hi,
I guess you are using MMA on A105? If Yes then you just need to have Volume analyzed MMA use that info.
Best regards,
Peke
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rusty
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Re: Sony NW-A105: Every song that is played is transferred again in next sync

Post by rusty »

Peke wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:26 pm Hi,
I guess you are using MMA on A105? If Yes then you just need to have Volume analyzed MMA use that info.
To clarify what Peke is trying to say: you don't actually need to use the 'Level volume' feature--it's intended for use on devices with players that don't support Replay Gain. Since you're syncing to devices running MMA, it's preferable to:
a) ensure that all your music in MMW has been analyzed (i.e. it contains volume leveling co-efficients). You can set this to occur automatically
b) ensure that MMA has Options > Playback:Level Volume enabled

Of course we still need to look into this, but just wanted to clarify...

-Rusty
Snofru
Posts: 184
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:12 am

Re: Sony NW-A105: Every song that is played is transferred again in next sync

Post by Snofru »

Thank you both for this information!

One good thing about the volume levelling during sync is that I can set a volume level (in dB). Does this mean that this doesn't do anything when I sync to MMA?
MMW Version 4.1.31.1919 Portable
MMW Version 5.0.0.2415 Portable
Samsung Galaxy S9 and Sony NW-A105 with MMA Beta 1.4.2.0952
rusty
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Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2003 3:39 am
Location: Montreal, Canada

Re: Sony NW-A105: Every song that is played is transferred again in next sync

Post by rusty »

One good thing about the volume levelling during sync is that I can set a volume level (in dB).
True. MMW allows you to set a target playback volume for analyzed tracks, but MMA just defaults to 89db. This is something we'll look at more deeply in MMA if/when we stop using Android's default audio engine which we're considering anyhow.
Does this mean that this doesn't do anything when I sync to MMA?
If 'Level (playback) Volume' is enabled on MMA, it adjusts volume up/down based on the volume leveling co-efficients. But if tracks have been leveled, it won't normally have much of an effect since the track co-efficients should already be close to zero (unless you've levelled them to a dramatically different value than the default of 89dB).

-Rusty
Ludek
Posts: 4010
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:00 am

Re: Sony NW-A105: Every song that is played is transferred again in next sync

Post by Ludek »

To understand the ''[x] Level volume when synchronizing audio'' means that the audio file is physically re-converted to the target volume level, this explains why the FLAC has different file size after sync, so my theory is that you synced the tracks initially without tthe '''[ ] Level volume when synchronizing audio''' and later you chacked this chackbox thus MMA wants to re-download the tracks to get them in the leveled state.

But as Rusty/Peke indicated when syncing to MMA you does not need to level volume when syncchronizing, it is enough to sync the metadata (with the replay gain / volume level coefficient) and MMA can automatically play the song at desired volume without a need to physically convert the file.

Therefore I would recommend to disable the '''[ ] Level volume when synchronizing audio''' checkbox in MM5 and enable Options > Playback:Level Volume in MMA
Snofru
Posts: 184
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:12 am

Re: Sony NW-A105: Every song that is played is transferred again in next sync

Post by Snofru »

Thanks!

I am pretty sure that the 1st sync was with the level volume being tagged. It is important for me to have a relatively high volume level (I set it to 97 dB) because otherwise my Bluetooth speakers don't play loud enough (haven't checked this with the new Sony NW-A105, though).
At least I thought that setting it to 97 dB does make it louder. There is no such setting in MMA as far as I know, is there a setting in MMW5 that increases the general level of output volume?
MMW Version 4.1.31.1919 Portable
MMW Version 5.0.0.2415 Portable
Samsung Galaxy S9 and Sony NW-A105 with MMA Beta 1.4.2.0952
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