Should I upgrade to MMW5?

[pokeefe0001]

I just spent a couple months upgrading a very old MMW2.5 implementation to portable MMW4.1. Several times it was suggested in the MMW4 forum that I upgrade to MMW5 instead. I now have the implementation stable enough to consider that suggestion. I'm trying to determine if the upgrade is reasonable (or even feasible) for us.

There are several absolute requirements and several strongly desired attributes:

1.The look and feel MUST be similar enough to mm2.5 and MM 4.1 using the Blue Monkey skin that our users will feel comfortable and not need to be retrained. Ideally they won't even be aware of a change.

2. There must be an equivalent function to the UpdateLocationOfFiles.vbs so that when we copy the MM database and our music library from one USB flash memory drive to another the database can be made to point to the correct instance of the library. We maintain copies of out MM installation and library on 3 USB flash memory drives (or in the case of MM2.5, 3 separate laptops). Each week we sync the copies by the MM database from a master copy and then running UpdateLocationOfFiles to get each copy of the database to point to the correct copy of the library.

The capability can be either builtin or provided by an add-on, but it is needed.

3. There needs to be a way to create a delay between the playing of tracks. I have read that this is not included in the base product and that is fine as long as an add-on is available that provides the function. MM 2.5 and MM 4.1 had at least 2 add-ons that provided this function: the Player's WinAmp Pause&Resume plugin and the SilenceBetweenSongs extension.

4. Some of our users depend on MM's Last 50 Played feature but need the Last Played timestamp to be updated shortly after starting to play a track, not the default update at end of track. The PlayedDateAndCounter.vbs script provides this capability in MM 4.1. We would strongly desire this either as a built-in function or provided by an add-on.

I might be able to think of other requirements, but I suspect this list is already a show-stopper.

[Lowlander]

Start here: https://www.mediamonkey.com/wiki/WebHel ... 7s_New/5.0

1) There are lots of changes, but you can set MediaMonkey 5 up to be very similar to MediaMonkey 4 depending on how you setup MediaMonkey 4 as it also had a lot of flexibility. Skins are different and it will take time to see more Skins being developed: https://www.mediamonkey.com/addons/brow ... 1/skins-1/

2) This is now included in MediaMonkey itself: https://www.mediamonkey.com/wiki/WebHel ... sign_Drive

3) Not possible with MediaMonkey itself (which was the same in MediaMonkey 4). An Addon doesn't exist for it. You can disable Crossfading and Silence Removal though: https://www.mediamonkey.com/wiki/WebHel ... ing_Output

4) Not possible. MediaMonkey 5 updates Play Count and Last Played at end of file: https://www.mediamonkey.com/wiki/WebHel ... ip_Counter No Addon exists yet for MediaMonkey 5.

[dtsig]

yeah .. to be truthful to you #1 is a show stopper for you. Look and feel is completely different. No Blue Monkey skin and doubtful there will be.
Same with #2-4

I love MM5 but you have to be willing to invest in the changes ..

[Bullit420]

Not sure if this is an issue for you, but I rely on a third-party Discogs Tagger Addon to obtain accurate info for my CDs. I found out the developer is not planning on coding the addon for MediaMonkey 5. For me, not having the Discogs addon for tagging music is a major disappointment. I'm not sure what I am going to do.

[sallenmd87]

For me, it's all about add-ons. No RegExp Find and Replace = No upgrade, ever. Once it and probably Simple Append are available for MM5, I will upgrade.

[pokeefe0001]

I'm sure a lot of effort went into the development of MM 5 - years of design and programming followed by years of beta test. However, it seems like the target demographic was designers, not users. I've heard about how easy customization and add-on development is ... if you know HTML and JavaScript. But the average users (of any product) don't care about HTML and JavaScript - they just want the product to work, and if the add-ons they depend on are no longer available they have effectively been stabbed in the back.

Unless the database environment has changed, I suspect that many of the add-on scripts can be changed from VBS to JavaScript and will still work. But that is not something the general users of MM should be expected to do. (And if I were a developer of MM add-ons I'd be really ticked off that years of work needed to be redone.)

[blueboy2419]

I tried but quickly reverted to MM4.

Too many things I am unhappy with to list. I am reminded of the old adage: If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[dtsig]

but it is broke ... leads only to window usage where new framework allows other environments. MM5 is the future so get used to it!

[pokeefe0001]

but it is broke ... leads only to window usage where new framework allows other environments.

Which is irrelevant for Windows users.

MM5 is the future so get used to it!

That is an absurd statement. There is no reason for users to switch to MM5 if it does not address their needs. If a learning curve is involved, we might as well consider other products. The future does not need to include MedaiMonkey at all.

[jiri]

Hi,

we are aware of lower number of addons in MM5 compared to MM4. This will definitely improve with some time. It'd help to let us know which kind of addons you miss most and how do you use them, so that we could evaluate what kind of functionality makes sense to add, either directly to MM5 or as new addons.

Thanks!
Jiri

[pokeefe0001]

we are aware of lower number of addons in MM5 compared to MM4. This will definitely improve with some time. It'd help to let us know which kind of addons you miss most and how do you use them, so that we could evaluate what kind of functionality makes sense to add, either directly to MM5 or as new addons.

It seems to me that that misses the point of something like MediaMonkey. With hundreds of addons spread across the MM user community, any one given addon may have just a handful of users but can be vitally important to those few users. Those same users may have absolutely no need for the most popular addons. They will be left out in the cold.

Perhaps even more significantly, those hundreds of scripts provide a library of routines that can be cannibalized and combined so that people with no familiarity with VBS or object oriented programmed (such as I) can cobble together their own working addons.

Addons that my group depend on:
1. The WinAmp General plug-in Pause&Resume. Since support for WinAmp DSP plug-ins has been completely removed in MMW5 we have no hope here. The VBS addon SilenceBetweenSongs almost provides an alternative. (I haven't seen a way terminate the pause in that addon.)

2. PlayedDateandCounter so that the play count and last played date get updated shortly after starting to play a track. (We could not get the "Last 50 Played" playlist to reflect reality without this.)

3. A homegrown add-on to display an undocked panel containing the name of the currently playing track on an external monitor. (Several addons did similar things but were not adequate for our needs.)

[Peke]

Hi,
First thank you, as this is kind of feedback we need (and needed all these years MM5 was developed) in order to make things better/working in MM5.

It seems to me that that misses the point of something like MediaMonkey. With hundreds of addons spread across the MM user community, any one given addon may have just a handful of users but can be vitally important to those few users. Those same users may have absolutely no need for the most popular addons. They will be left out in the cold.

ATM yes, but many many plugins were made long time ago, so only thing I can say about that you are right and users will be disappointing, but that exact fact that plugins work for 15+ years in MM4 means that we care and want to make stable system for next 15+ years and not simply make them obsolete. MS simply made VBscript Obsolete and starting to disable it in Windows itself. Windows 11 will not have IE11 by default and MM4 WEB rendering Engine is based on IE11. We had no choice but to evolve and make sure MM works for next 15 years. MM is planned to move to multi platform and VBScript, Winamp Plugins do not work on MAC or Linux. I wonder what you would do:
a) wait till MS decide VBS is no more supported on latest Windows Version.
b) work hardly for several years to make tools and solution that will in theory work on Windows, MAC OS, Linux (there is still no fully working MAC ad Linux MM version) even that means rewriting MM and most popular plugins.

Perhaps even more significantly, those hundreds of scripts provide a library of routines that can be cannibalized and combined so that people with no familiarity with VBS or object oriented programmed (such as I) can cobble together their own working addons.

1000% Agree, but it was the same thing with MM1.x in 2002 and now as you said you have vast library of samples and examples for MM4 that you can use. Same thing you can expect with MM5, but ATM with bit more effort as you need to ask for help, not just cannibalize and combine existing ones adn exactly the same will happen, we(or someone) will answer and help.

Addons that my group depend on:

Let me try to address each one.

1. The WinAmp General plug-in Pause&Resume. Since support for WinAmp DSP plug-ins has been completely removed in MMW5 we have no hope here. The VBS addon SilenceBetweenSongs almost provides an alternative. (I haven't seen a way terminate the pause in that addon.)

There is two native options in MM5 as alternative a) Menu Play -> Stop After ->.... b) Right click on player Play button -> Stop After -> ....

2. PlayedDateandCounter so that the play count and last played date get updated shortly after starting to play a track. (We could not get the "Last 50 Played" playlist to reflect reality without this.)

This is something that was raised all the way thru MM2.x-MM4.x and main problem is Skip counter which do not work if you increase play counter after playback start. I personally like that if I skip track in first 1/3 of track I get Skip counter increased and after 1/2 (or 2/3) I get played counter increased. It is something that is on our ToDo for quite some time without full solution and half baked one is not a solution, while current behavior is working as is for 15+ years.
NOTE: I will talk with others and see what is its review state.

3. A homegrown add-on to display an undocked panel containing the name of the currently playing track on an external monitor. (Several addons did similar things but were not adequate for our needs.)

If you share your needs (even script privately) with us we maybe able to help you on porting/creating MM5 one with more features, because MM5 is more flexible and open than MM4 and older. Simply like you pointed there was examples in MM4 that were not adequate for your needs, well someone must write those examples.

Again, thank you for complains, now lets see what can be done. I hope I answered at least some if your concerns?

For end of this long answer I would like to quote: "When car is spending more time on repairs than on a road, it is time for new car." and for us at dev teams we were starting to patch flat tires more than spending time on adding features, so MM5 was born where we can innovate and not just patch things up.

[crawdad63]

but it is broke ... leads only to window usage where new framework allows other environments.

Which is irrelevant for Windows users.

MM5 is the future so get used to it!

That is an absurd statement. There is no reason for users to switch to MM5 if it does not address their needs. If a learning curve is involved, we might as well consider other products. The future does not need to include MedaiMonkey at all.

I agree with you 110%

[eliasro]

I've been a user since the first versions, and I've NEVER seen such a disastrous update.

It was HORRIBLE the look ... and difficult to try to change without Skins.

I think I will have to look for alternatives and leave MM behind.

Is anyone experiencing more than discomfort when using the MM5?
I can continue using version 4?, what to do because I click on a song and it scrolls and doesn't play anything!

---------------------------------

Em português...
Sou usuário desde as primeiras versões, e NUNCA vi uma atualização tão desastrosa.

Ficou HORRIVEL o visual...e complicado tentar alterar sem Skins.

Acho que terei de buscar alternativas e deixar o MM pra trás.

Alguém está sentindo algo mais que um desconforto ao utilizar o MM5 ?
Eu consigo continuar utilizando a versão 4 ?, o que fazer pois clico numa musica e ela rola a tela e não toca nada !

[eliasro]

I tried but quickly reverted to MM4.

Too many things I am unhappy with to list. I am reminded of the old adage: If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I agree, this update or new version was horrible in all aspects. And version 4 stopped working, when I click on a track, it scrolls to the last track and nothing happens. This has already happened, and I don't remember what to do to normalize it, does anyone know how to fix it?