Linux.... mediamonkey.... meant to be..?

Any ideas about how to improve MediaMonkey? Let us know!

Moderator: Gurus

Would you use mediamonkey on ubuntu?

You may select 1 option

 
 
View results

botijo
Posts: 415
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:20 am
Location: Ireland

Re: Ubuntu.... mediamonkey.... meant to be..?

Post by botijo » Sat Mar 06, 2010 7:31 pm

Hey, lads,
it is not easy to port MediaMonkey to other platforms as version 3 stands the way it stands now. There are some requirements that need to be done first:
  • Change the Trident (IE based) browser for any of the other free ones like WebKit (Safari, Chrome) or Gecko(Firefox)
  • Change the scripting system from Visual Basic Script to, let's say, Python
  • (Wild Guess) Port code from Delphi to C++
  • Recode all the plugins for devices, including learning how to access MTP devices under Linux
After all, not trivial stuff. But if Steam can do that change on the webbrowser, hopefully MM can do the same.
Regards.

Guest

Re: Ubuntu.... mediamonkey.... meant to be..?

Post by Guest » Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:39 pm

While i do understand it isn't, would it be better in general to code in python then say VB? Also instead of VB you could use Gambas, couldn't you? And they could fork another audio program and use it as a base.

Thank you.

Lowlander
Posts: 47551
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 5:53 pm
Location: MediaMonkey 5

Re: Ubuntu.... mediamonkey.... meant to be..?

Post by Lowlander » Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:21 am

Dunno, but I'd assume many more people are proficient in VB than Python, which made VB a good choice as scripting language (the more people that know the language the more addons that can be developed).
Lowlander (MediaMonkey user since 2003)

Guest

Re: Ubuntu.... mediamonkey.... meant to be..?

Post by Guest » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:31 pm

Which is why i suggest Gambas for VB, it is also very simple and similar to VB. I am learning it now, it is simple.

2hot6ft2

Re: Ubuntu.... mediamonkey.... meant to be..?

Post by 2hot6ft2 » Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:52 am

I've used MM for years on winblows, and while I think MM is the best music plater and organizer there is, I wont be suggesting it to anyone anymore. If the MM developers can't or wont support the OS that I've switched to then there's no point in me recommending something that I can't run natively on my own OS.

Since I'm constantly recommending people get away from winblows and all their viruses, malware, and security flaws there's no sense in recommending an app. that they will have problems trying to get to work in Ubuntu (or any flavor of linux) once they make the switch. Right now I'm trying to get MM to run under WINE and it's not looking good. It's the first and only app. that I was willing to try and use under WINE. :( Ubuntu has everything else I need or want so if I can't get it working then Amarok and Rhythmbox will just have to suffice.

Sad to say that at this point I'll just have to add MM to the list of other products not to buy along with all the others that wont add linux support for their products.

More and more people are switching to linux all the time and as linux keeps getting better and better it will just keep growing exponentially. Linux is the future and since linux itself is mostly free the users have more money in their pockets to spend on premium applications. After all we don't have to spend money on anti-virus, firewalls, and all the other software that windows users do.
:roll:
What's a few million more potential customers anyway? It's just a few 10's of millions of dollars. Conservative estimates I know, but I don't want to overestimate.

botijo
Posts: 415
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:20 am
Location: Ireland

Re: Ubuntu.... mediamonkey.... meant to be..?

Post by botijo » Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:45 am

2hot6ft2 wrote:What's a few million more potential customers anyway? It's just a few 10's of millions of dollars. Conservative estimates I know, but I don't want to overestimate.
I do not want to sound rude, but MediaMonkey might be not as popular as you think. If you go to a place like CNet, you have this ranking on total number of downloads (as of today):
  • JetAudio (default manager for Cowon DAPs)
  • Winamp
  • iTunes
  • MediaMonkey
Note: You should not trust this list too much. JetAudio can only be downloaded by CNet. iTunes is needed for those 30% of the total DAP sold - you probably get a CD with those DAPs. Also, MediaMonkey first option for download is to use MediaMonkey servers and not CNet. Windows Media Player/Center is bundled with MS Windows and free alternatives like Songbird, Rythmbox and Amarok are not available in CNet.
Anyhow, none of these four music managers have a version for Linux. Only one has a version for MacOS. And there is no mention to Windows Media Player/Center because there are no stats anywhere.
Enough rant, I would say that if MediaMonkey developers want to get a wider paying audience, they need to try:
  • Bundle MediaMonkey with DAPs (try to use iriver tools and then we'll talk)
  • Go for the MacOs users (like Valve)
At the moment, I will assume that there are only a bunch (100k) Ubuntu users that might pay for a non-free management software, as there are many options there (although I do not like them). As far as the unhappy MacOs iTunes users (there isn't much of an option there), people might consider paying for an alternative - they are used to pay for software.
It would be interesting to check how many of MediaMonkey users are actually paying customers. I know I am.

Lowlander
Posts: 47551
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 5:53 pm
Location: MediaMonkey 5

Re: Ubuntu.... mediamonkey.... meant to be..?

Post by Lowlander » Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:53 am

For Linux trends see: http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report. ... d=9&qpct=4
It seems Linux is stable, it's MAC OS that's making inroads on the Windows dominance.

I also wouldn't be surprised if many of the Linux users use Linux for the ideology of Open Source, and would thus be unwilling to use (and pay) for a closed source application like MediaMonkey.

PS. Running 4 Windows systems without viruses for many years now.
Lowlander (MediaMonkey user since 2003)

2hot6ft2

Re: Ubuntu.... mediamonkey.... meant to be..?

Post by 2hot6ft2 » Sun Mar 28, 2010 2:27 pm

botijo wrote: I do not want to sound rude, but MediaMonkey might be not as popular as you think. If you go to a place like CNet, you have this ranking on total number of downloads (as of today):
  • JetAudio (default manager for Cowon DAPs)
  • Winamp
  • iTunes
  • MediaMonkey
At the moment, I will assume that there are only a bunch (100k) Ubuntu users that might pay for a non-free management software, as there are many options there (although I do not like them). As far as the unhappy MacOs iTunes users (there isn't much of an option there), people might consider paying for an alternative - they are used to pay for software.
It would be interesting to check how many of MediaMonkey users are actually paying customers. I know I am.
So you're saying it one of the top 4 and is right up there with iTunes and winamp. :wink:
"only a bunch (100k)" so 100,000 x USD 39.95 = USD 3,995,000.00
You're right it's not enough to even bother with. :-? What was I thinking.
Well fine then 100,000 people then that are ubuntu users. It doesn't matter what number I use someone will still say it's wrong so the next one will say 10,000 and the next 1,000.... As long as it doesn't work, or doesn't work right on linux we'll never know so that's a mute point. People are always asking what the best music app. is and as long as MM doesn't work it wont be an option. No I'm not going to install a VM with windows just to have MM as a media player period.
Getting it to work under WINE DIDN'T WORK.
That's right go for MAC, I've never owned one and never will. I don't know anyone that owns one either.
I paid for a gold license as well, too bad I didn't switch to linux earlier then we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

I didn't post here to get in an argument about it. I had something to say as a paying customer and I said it.

As for having windows running for years without any viruses for years so what. I used win for over 20 years and I couldn't care less.
While some linux users wont pay for for a closed source application like MediaMonkey. Others would and do.
If they port it to linux then I'll start recommending it again, but not until then.

Have a nice day and you can continue bickering amongst yourselves.
I'm out of here.

ReverendEntity
Posts: 94
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 11:48 am
Contact:

Re: Ubuntu.... mediamonkey.... meant to be..?

Post by ReverendEntity » Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:20 am

Approaching this from more of a Linux users' frame of mind...I think that the best way to get some forward motion on this would be if there were volunteers to start converting the code. I would volunteer myself, but I don't know much about coding yet, let alone Python.
Image

kampkrusty
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 5:14 pm

Re: Ubuntu.... mediamonkey.... meant to be..?

Post by kampkrusty » Mon Apr 26, 2010 5:27 pm

How's about a Linux backend with a web interface frontend? Maybe have a daemon run on a Linux machine (possibly a headless server), and control all functionality via a browser, regardless of operating system? With tiny distributions like xpud, for instance, it's just a matter of time before mostly everything is run via a browser on a small footprint that takes no time to boot.

botijo
Posts: 415
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:20 am
Location: Ireland

Re: Ubuntu.... mediamonkey.... meant to be..?

Post by botijo » Mon Apr 26, 2010 5:58 pm

kampkrusty wrote:How's about a Linux backend with a web interface frontend? Maybe have a daemon run on a Linux machine (possibly a headless server), and control all functionality via a browser, regardless of operating system? With tiny distributions like xpud, for instance, it's just a matter of time before mostly everything is run via a browser on a small footprint that takes no time to boot.
The key here is "all functionality". The first thing I will assume such an approach might fail is scalability. I have not seen very complex AJAX documents that load as fast as MediaMonkey does at the moment. I am assuming AJAX as this would be the standard feel of a web application these days in that you do not need to refresh.
The second possible issue would be how to connect portable devices. If this is in the same machine, that might be ok. On different machines this is missing - web browsers do not have access, or should have, to raw USB. I am not sure about the status of connecting an Apple device on Linux, but that could pose a big problem (MM uses iTunes at the moment).
Scripts would then be installed and run in the server machine. It will be a big risk if you let the users install it via the browser without any access control. It also means users need to either copy&paste or download&upload/install the script.
Plugins, e.g. DSP, would be impossible to run on the browser. Visualizations would need to be recoded.
And then there is the problem that some might face of having a web server running on their own machine. This might cause some trouble if you do not have any kind of firewall or NAT.
These are all risks... Let's see what kind of proposals you have to mitigate the risks.

kampkrusty
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 5:14 pm

Re: Ubuntu.... mediamonkey.... meant to be..?

Post by kampkrusty » Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:34 pm

Oh, I do agree, it would be a difficult task to pull off. I don't know a thing about web development or ajax, so all I can say is that my suggestion was simply that...a suggestion.

I like the idea of being able to run an engine on Linux, and remotely access it via a web browser. Products such as SqueezeServer, Transmission BitTorrent, and Sabnzbd run very nicely in this configuration. Of course, we're talking completely different products here, but the idea of being able to access these from a portable device like an iPod is pretty nice.

At the end of the day, one of the great benefits of using a full-blown product on Windows comes down to look and feel. Having a highly fluid and responsive app is always preferred over a slowly refreshing web page. But hopefully browsers will eventually evolve and the limitations of look and feel will no longer be limitations. At least that's what I'd like to see.

ReverendEntity
Posts: 94
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 11:48 am
Contact:

Re: Ubuntu.... mediamonkey.... meant to be..?

Post by ReverendEntity » Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:13 pm

botijo wrote:Hey, lads,
it is not easy to port MediaMonkey to other platforms as version 3 stands the way it stands now. There are some requirements that need to be done first:
  • Change the Trident (IE based) browser for any of the other free ones like WebKit (Safari, Chrome) or Gecko(Firefox)
  • Change the scripting system from Visual Basic Script to, let's say, Python
  • (Wild Guess) Port code from Delphi to C++
  • Recode all the plugins for devices, including learning how to access MTP devices under Linux
After all, not trivial stuff. But if Steam can do that change on the webbrowser, hopefully MM can do the same.
Regards.
These all sound like good starting points.
Image

lexpython

Re: Ubuntu.... mediamonkey.... meant to be..?

Post by lexpython » Fri Jun 25, 2010 7:34 pm

I would also like to see MediaMonkey ported to Ubuntu. Ubuntu is now relevant as of about a year ago and people are going to start using it.

ReverendEntity
Posts: 94
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 11:48 am
Contact:

Re: Ubuntu.... mediamonkey.... meant to be..?

Post by ReverendEntity » Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:38 am

And not just Ubuntu, but Linux in general. I've tried just about all of the Linux ones - Amarok, Banshee, Ex Libris, Listen, Audacious - and I keep coming back to Rhythmbox. But the things that I wish Rhythmbox had (Magic Folder drag and drop, customizable sorting and tagging scripts) are the things that MediaMonkey has.
Image

Post Reply