Why did you move away from an Access format?

oldtimer · Post by **oldtimer** » Mon May 07, 2007 6:22 pm

[quote]Q) Why have I lost my database / ratings / playcounts / view settings?
A) MediaMonkey 3.x uses a new database format and doesn't currently import information from your MM 2.x DB into MM 3.x. This feature will be added in the future once the database structure is finalized. So your old MM 2.x database should be alive and well--it's just not used by MM 3.x. As far as view settings, installing MM 3.x will trigger some changes to your MM 2.x view (e.g. player in a different position). [/quote]

I am curious why are you moving away from a well known data format to elf? Anyone with a little skill could right a little script to modify it or make their own reports. Some users love to that kind of stuff.

Steegy · Post by **Steegy** » Mon May 07, 2007 6:29 pm

Please search the forum first (using the option "Search for all terms"). There are already some threads about this.

rovingcowboy · Post by **rovingcowboy** » Mon May 07, 2007 7:16 pm

i don't remember any of them treads? steegy no doubt they are there but i just missed them.

so old timer here's the answer.

access was not able to handle the large databases and was messing up when too many songs were put in the library.

i myself found it would not properly update the partition tables when i added in new songs and it thus caused media monkey to crash. they have been working towards a newer database for over a year now.

i also like the fact it was more customizable by the users. but
the constant crashing every time i added in songs was driving me nuts. i am glad they are changing. but if i can not use the same old scripts with the new mm 3, and they don't update the ones i use. then i wont change from 2.5 and have to put up with the crashing.

i just hate transition times.

Steegy · Post by **Steegy** » Mon May 07, 2007 7:39 pm

Actually the main reasons are speed, reliability, size and compactness, portability (and platform-independance), ...
MediaMonkey v2 works fine using an Access database (even for many thousands of songs), but it can always be better, and that's what MM3 will give us. A plain database "engine" like SQLite (and so not an extra database server) is best-suited for that purpose.

rovingcowboy · Post by **rovingcowboy** » Tue May 08, 2007 12:30 am

i thought after i typed and posted that message. that they had changed databases before. either from 2.2 to a new one in 2.4 which was access. and what i typed was for the old switch. cause i had that partition stuff along time ago and have not had it again. and i do remember it was changed as we could not go back to the old one. so i am sorry i posted for the other change.
old memory popped up sorry.

gtbuzz · Post by **gtbuzz** » Tue May 08, 2007 11:03 am

I think what you are referring to was a data format change that was incompatible between 2 versions of MM2.x. I don't remember which two versions (maybe the 2.3 to 2.4 upgrade). I'm pretty sure MM has used Access as its backend since the SongDB days.

rovingcowboy · Post by **rovingcowboy** » Tue May 08, 2007 10:35 pm

oh yeah? umm i thought they changed database's back then maybe this in mm3 is what they been working on and talking about last year? and way back then. but those two version numbers sound like when i remember it doing that not allowed to back up to the old version after the upgrade.. thanks for reminder of the exact thing.

oldtimer · Post by **oldtimer** » Thu May 10, 2007 8:44 pm

Well, this is all delightfully interesting!

I never was much of an access man myself. I condier it far weeker than dDase which it replaced. I prefer power tools to hand tools. That elf file is a SQLite data file? I will look into it I have checked out their web site. SQL is one of my main stays.

Could the dramitic speed increase of 3 over 2 have to do with the backend? I have 15-20K of tunes. 20K of records should be nothing for a database. Oh I forgot MS built that piece of crap! They never could build a database.

Steegy · Post by **Steegy** » Fri May 11, 2007 5:33 am

oldtimer wrote:That elf file is a SQLite data file?

No, that's the debug log.

The SQLite 'driver' is "sqlite3.dll". The database is located as "C:\Documents and Settings\<UserName>\Local Settings\Application Data\MediaMonkey\MM.db"

Cheers
Steegy

MarineBrat · Post by **MarineBrat** » Fri May 11, 2007 11:48 am

oldtimer wrote:They never could build a database.

They could buy them, but not build them.

Though Access isn't too bad after all these years.

Like you, I'm a dBase guy. Though I must say that SQL has some definite advantages when running a networked/shared database. But alas, those same advantages are what us dBase guys see as a disadvantage. In SQL you can never really "see" the data, only the result of a query. In dBase I can actually SEE the data.

Nova5 · Post by **Nova5** » Fri May 11, 2007 1:50 pm

Access is for light duty small databases. anything over 65535 records gives it a problem. It also cannot handle multiuser access.. this just causes it to crash into oblivion. Used it for my senior project, and we kept hitting certian walls, eventually found out what they were and pulled a 11th hour conversion to SQL... boy was that FUN! talk about cutting it close. soon as we transfered to SQL the problems vanished.

Post by **Peke** » Fri May 11, 2007 9:29 pm

@Database guys/girls
If someone older know and remember Clipper (DOS) and Now X-Base++. Simply best of both worlds. I made tons of DB apps in Clipper and one thing I liked the most is actualy you manipulate with data and Use advanced Indexes/relations to gain queries, speed and filtering.

Nova5 · Post by **Nova5** » Fri May 11, 2007 11:35 pm

Peke wrote:@Database guys/girls
If someone older know and remember Clipper (DOS) and Now X-Base++. Simply best of both worlds. I made tons of DB apps in Clipper and one thing I liked the most is actualy you manipulate with data and Use advanced Indexes/relations to gain queries, speed and filtering.

I used to make DOS to tricks as a Kid.

Damn your old. :p

MarineBrat · Post by **MarineBrat** » Sat May 12, 2007 4:47 pm

Peke wrote:@Database guys/girls
If someone older know and remember Clipper (DOS) and Now X-Base++. Simply best of both worlds. I made tons of DB apps in Clipper and one thing I liked the most is actualy you manipulate with data and Use advanced Indexes/relations to gain queries, speed and filtering.

Clipper was awesome. I used it for years. The main problem was when databases become extremely large, Clipper had trouble. As I recall it had a 32 megabyte limit on DBT files which required a 3rd party driver. I think it was the Grumpfish driver. And on a network platform it could take hours to rebuild/index. This was in the Novell Network days when you couldn't do maintenance from the server without using some expensive NLM's (Can't remember the name) that allowed the Novell server to do the maintenance locally.

After my clients started havign >100,000 contacts in their databases dBase became too slow. And even today I have problems when their DBT files reach 2gig.