Media Tree

[Davo]

I wrote in August 2018
Re: Issues with Collections/Tree Nodes/Views
Post by Davo » Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:04 pm

Media tree
If you are going to have a media tree then let the user define the sub nodes. This is one of the strengths of Foobar & probably why it is still my main music manager because it lets me view my data in the way i want to see it. Unfortunately at the moment MM has a tree but few branches & in the case of some of the nodes like Composer & Conductor none.

MM is probably the closest to my idea of a good media manager but IMO still falls short in giving the user control over their own data.

I have downloaded the latest v5 24 th Dec & it is clear that a comprehensive user defined media tree will never be provided. So I guess this is where i part ways with MM.

Best Wishes for the New Year
David

[Barry4679]

If you are going to have a media tree then let the user define the sub nodes. This is one of the strengths of Foobar & probably why it is still my main music manager because it lets me view my data in the way i want to see it. Unfortunately at the moment MM has a tree but few branches & in the case of some of the nodes like Composer & Conductor none.

I agree your main point that it is surprising that the new UI has no way to create or rename sub-nodes.
But OTOH, MM is so well designed I don't know what I would do with it, even if there were such a facility.

Unfortunately at the moment MM has a tree but few branches & in the case of some of the nodes like Composer & Conductor none.

I don't see your problem here. The Conductor node has all the sub-nodes,
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4x8piur8koo3t ... e.png?dl=0

And is configurable as any of the other nodes (aka collections).
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bqso5jkafj5u8 ... g.png?dl=0

Same thing if you defined yourself a top level Conductor node|collection.

And you can add Conductor and|or composer sub-nodes to any predefined nodes, or to your custom collections.

So I don't understand what you are missing?

[Davo]

Happy to be proved wrong, so here are some examples of what i'm missing. I can easily create these tree structures in Foobar & MusicBee but not in MM.

+ Genre
--- +Album Artist
------- +Album
-----------Track No - Title
or

+ Genre
--- + Album Artist – Album
------ Track No - Title

or
+ Composer
--- + Album - Album Artist
---------- Track No - Title


https://www.dropbox.com/sh/cwko51a3bx42 ... uuPla?dl=0

[Peke]

Hi,
In MM5 Install folder you have Sample Scripts (like "showAllNodes.mmip") that you can easily modify to show additional SubNodes.

[Davo]

@Peke
I've not modified an mmip script before. Could you give me an example of how to do it, say for the tree structure below -

+ Genre
--- + Album Artist – Album
------ Track No - Title

Thanks
David

[Peke]

Hi,
Simply rename mmip to Zip and then you will be able to extract all script files. After that you can use JavaScript to modify it and repack again for installation in MM5.

[Davo]

So it is "easy" if you understand Javascript. Unfortunately I don't.
"One of the first questions people ask about learning a coding language is how long it takes. While JavaScript is a step up from the most fundamental web development skills (languages like HTML and CSS, which can be learned in under a month), you can still expect to learn JS basics in a matter of months, not years—and that’s whether you learn through online classes or teach yourself through book study."

[Peke]

Hi,
Sorry, I assumed that you already know JavaScript. Well MM5 is still in early stages and API is not yet complete. So basically unlike MMW that have thousands of scripts, plugins and developers MM5 is taking baby steps.

ATM such option natively in MM5 is lower priority unfortunately, but not disclosed.

[Barry4679]

Hi Davo,

I have downloaded the latest v5 24 th Dec & it is clear that a comprehensive user defined media tree will never be provided. So I guess this is where i part ways with MM.

Before throwing the baby out with the bath water, be sure to look carefully at what new goodness is being delivered with MM5 ... And to throw another metaphor at you , the good people at MM appear to have hidden their light under a bushel somewhat when it comes to publishing an overview of the new deliverables, so you have to spend some time, and experiment a little.

Happy to be proved wrong, so here are some examples of what i'm missing. I can easily create these tree structures in Foobar & MusicBee but not in MM.

+ Genre
--- +Album Artist
------- +Album
-----------Track No - Title

I looked at the pics that you attached. ... TBH it didn't fill me with envy, and it did remind me somewhat of the 1970's, when we lived in a text-based monochrome green screen world.

I am unable to replicate exactly just using the MM UI, but if you embrace the new MM5 paradigm you should be able to answer whatever question you are asking. You didn't say whether you were wanting something for searching, or just for browsing.

To take just your first example quoted above.

If you were browsing you could do this

Browse composers; select one, say Brahms
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zab2hvxsginat ... 1.png?dl=0

Click on him ... an inline window showing your albums which contain his work
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2cj01cn21md69 ... 2.png?dl=0

Click on one of albums for him ... another inline window opens, showing his tracks on that album ... the right click menu offering all you could want; playing rating, tagging, moving, play lists ops, etc etc
https://www.dropbox.com/s/f50ufcub9r3lb ... 3.png?dl=0

Click on the artist name in that screen (or album, or composer) ... and you see a screen showing data about the artist, and their tracks or albums in your collection.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/sc54g1lqxox6e ... 4.png?dl=0

Or click the "online" button to see info about albums that other people have for that artist, also links to related artists, ie. there is Khachaturian in the related artists section, and one click would jump browsing enquiry off into his part of your collection.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9sobyd67qs8on ... 5.png?dl=0

Another option is to use the column browser ... here I selected Genre of Chamber Music, narrowed it down to Brahms, and I see all matching albums & tracks from my collection
https://www.dropbox.com/s/nmwk2pbn7oknh ... 6.png?dl=0

Or if I drag the columns in the column browser to make Composer the primary filter criteria, I start of by filtering to Brahms, and can then focus down to just one his Genres
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ey0s9df4sqzev ... b.png?dl=0


Or to to start again ... try browsing Bela Bartok this time. Open the The EntireLibrary AllTracks node, and just type "bela" .... whoops too much info ... that also returns Bela Flack, and tracks with titles like "BELAted forgiveness plea" ... so type "composer:bela" ... which gives me just Bartok, where I can then sort or filter to meet whatever you are looking for.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9m3efaxr92005 ... 7.png?dl=0

Maybe you will find that MM5 does things different, but better.

[Davo]

Hi Barry
Thank you for taking the time to respond & it would be good if some others chimed in. The various options you describe are fine & in fact i will use them from time to time, however, for me a structured media tree is still the simplest & fastest way to find the musical data i need for editing, searching & browsing.

My library has 30+K albums And I do a fair amount of text & tag editing. I don't need any graphics display for this work.

I'm not sure what you mean by "the new MM5 paradigm" this sounds suspiciously like some new cult you are asking me to join.

I think we will agree to disagree on some of these issues.

I wish you a very happy New Year

David

[Barry4679]

Sorry, I assumed that you already know JavaScript.

That's an out-of-touch assumption isn't it?
Just a wild guess here, but the percent of MM customers with Javascript wouldn't be greatly different to the percentage who speak Serbian, would it?

Hi,
In MM5 Install folder you have Sample Scripts (like "showAllNodes.mmip") that you can easily modify to show additional SubNodes.

You have posted things like this a couple of time before ... but with no examples to demonstrate just how "easy" it is.
I am not doubting you, but I would also genuinely interested to see an example. ... I have no Javascript.

I've not modified an mmip script before. Could you give me an example of how to do it, say for the tree structure below -

+ Genre
--- + Album Artist – Album
------ Track No - Title

This seemed a good place to do that ... could you do it please?

Hi,
Simply rename mmip to Zip and then you will be able to extract all script files. After that you can use JavaScript to modify it and repack again for installation in MM5.

And this is like trying to satisfy a thirsty person, by blasting them with a fire hose.

[Barry4679]

for me a structured media tree is still the simplest & fastest way to find the musical data i need for editing, searching & browsing.

My library has 30+K albums And I do a fair amount of text & tag editing. I don't need any graphics display for this work.

Sounds reasonable. You should try that mod which restores the sub-nodes to MM5.

BTW. the graphics don't get in the way ... the text arrives first, and the graphics are queued to arrive later. .... the UI is active as soon as the text is displayed, ie. you don't have to wait for all the pictures to become populated.

I'm not sure what you mean by "the new MM5 paradigm" this sounds suspiciously like some new cult you are asking me to join.

Yeah, maybe I have been reading too much marketing bumf somewhere
You should be safe though ... I am not much of a joiner myself, and have a fairly sensitive BS detector. ... Like you, I have a large library ... I am looking forward to cutting over to MM5, when it is ready.

[Peke]

Sorry, I assumed that you already know JavaScript.

That's an out-of-touch assumption isn't it?
Just a wild guess here, but the percent of MM customers with Javascript wouldn't be greatly different to the percentage who speak Serbian, would it?

Maybe, but I was already surprised how many people use vbscript and easily combine existing scripts for MMW. So all comes to motivation. Learning basics of any language is not that hard especially if you have purpose and tools.

Hi,
In MM5 Install folder you have Sample Scripts (like "showAllNodes.mmip") that you can easily modify to show additional SubNodes.

You have posted things like this a couple of time before ... but with no examples to demonstrate just how "easy" it is.
I am not doubting you, but I would also genuinely interested to see an example. ... I have no Javascript.

If by example you mean create solution, than "showAllNodes.mmip" is direct example how you add subnode ("ALL") to MediaTree and execute a function.

[PetrCBR]

I've made a simple script to add albums under genre ... check it out, please. download here.

[Peke] EDIT: Updated to direct download link