A few questions about contextual search in a view [#15185]

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pbryanw
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A few questions about contextual search in a view [#15185]

Post by pbryanw »

Hi,

I'm currently using MM 5.0.0.2146 on Windows 10 1809 x64.

In MM 5, I've got "Contextual search (typing in a view)" set to "scroll to matches" in my Search Options. This contextual search works for me, but I have a few questions about its use & ideas about how it could be improved:
  1. Let's say I want to search for a song in List View. If the first result isn't the song I'm looking for, I've found I have to type the search term again, to scroll to the next result. Is there a keyboard shortcut to scroll to the next result, rather than having to do this?
  2. I've also noticed that for searching in a view, spaces don't seem to be parsed - is this something that could be added - or is it only one word searches for now?
  3. Would you consider a pop-up box (like with macOS's Spotlight) that shows your search term as you type - and will let you edit it? (It could pop-up when you start typing, then disappear after your last keystroke, or after pressing enter).
Thank you, Paul
Barry4679
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Re: A few questions about contextual search in a view

Post by Barry4679 »

I agree that "scroll to matches" is of no use unless there is something like accelerator keys to navigate to next|prior occurrence.

re your other comments, try setting search to "filter matches" ... that option seems less broken than "scroll to matches" at the moment

pbryanw wrote: Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:57 pm I've also noticed that for searching in a view, spaces don't seem to be parsed - is this something that could be added - or is it only one word searches for now?
You have "search whole words only" checked? ... I don't ... if I search "loe" it filters to "Lerner & Loewe", but if I search on "lo e", it filters to "Low End Theory"

pbryanw wrote: Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:57 pm Would you consider a pop-up box (like with macOS's Spotlight) that shows your search term as you type - and will let you edit it? (It could pop-up when you start typing, then disappear after your last keystroke, or after pressing enter).

You get this dropdown list? ... you navigate down the list via arrow key ... it is not very intuitive as the UI doesn't show your position in the list, and the list in last in last out sequence, rather something useful like alpha or lifo
https://www.dropbox.com/s/e75jtv8qp92hf ... t.png?dl=0

Other things I have noticed:
  • if you click the magnify glass icon at top left, and then press the down arrow you can navigate through your whole search history, ie. all a->z search strings
  • you can create a Tools|General|Hotkey for the action for "Edit:Search" to open the search control and it's drop down list
My pet wish is that they would provide a control inside the search box to clear it ... I think that it is crappy the way that it is
something like this: https://www.dropbox.com/s/jw7a6i41iuqoa ... g.png?dl=0
pbryanw
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Re: A few questions about contextual search in a view

Post by pbryanw »

@Barry4679 - Hi, thanks for your help with this.

Barry4679 wrote: Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:35 pm re your other comments, try setting search to "filter matches" ... that option seems less broken than "scroll to matches" at the moment
Hi, as far as I can see, if I switch to "filter matches", when I select the track I want to play, it will only show that track in Now Playing, and won't continue onto the rest of my playlist after this song has finished. This is why I was trying out "filter matches" - it seems if I search this way, my selected track will play, then it will continue playing the rest of the songs in my Music library.
Barry4679 wrote: Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:35 pm You have "search whole words only" checked? ... I don't ... if I search "loe" it filters to "Lerner & Loewe", but if I search on "lo e", it filters to "Low End Theory"
I've also unchecked "search whole words". It seems if you have "filter matches" enabled, and start a search for a name with spaces in it from List View, for example (by typing directly into the view, instead of using the search box), MM pauses and the search term isn't recognised. I don't know if this is because space is assigned to another shortcut, or because this isn't supported.
Barry4679 wrote: Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:35 pmif you click the magnify glass icon at top left, and then press the down arrow you can navigate through your whole search history, ie. all a->z search strings
I've also found that if you click on the small triangle in the search field, it does the same thing (I've just noticed this).

Regarding the search tooltip, I've only managed to trigger it once (with "show tooltips..." enabled in options), and can't get it to reliably show. And also agree that a button to clear your search, would be great. As far as I know, if you want do a different search, you have to delete the current one and start over (or click on a tree node to clear your search).
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Re: A few questions about contextual search in a view

Post by Barry4679 »

pbryanw wrote: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:31 pm
Barry4679 wrote: Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:35 pm re your other comments, try setting search to "filter matches" ... that option seems less broken than "scroll to matches" at the moment
Hi, as far as I can see, if I switch to "filter matches", when I select the track I want to play, it will only show that track in Now Playing, and won't continue onto the rest of my playlist after this song has finished. This is why I was trying out "filter matches" - it seems if I search this way, my selected track will play, then it will continue playing the rest of the songs in my Music library.
Yeah, I was only suggesting "filter matches" ATM, because the scroll option seems very buggy at the moment; ie. it doesn't create the search control is the too bar, which shows your current search term ... also it crashes often, or doesn't get started, eg. dump id 5367CF21

pbryanw wrote: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:31 pm
Barry4679 wrote: Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:35 pmif you click the magnify glass icon at top left, and then press the down arrow you can navigate through your whole search history, ie. all a->z search strings
I've also found that if you click on the small triangle in the search field, it does the same thing (I've just noticed this).
Yes I see that too now, thanks. ... You also get the tooltip by hovering over it.

It is all fine, if you have the vision, dexterity and precision of a vascular surgeon ... I would prefer that they offered these behavious over a larger target, like the magnifying icon for example
pbryanw wrote: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:31 pmI've also unchecked "search whole words". It seems if you have "filter matches" enabled, and start a search for a name with spaces in it from List View, for example (by typing directly into the view, instead of using the search box), MM pauses and the search term isn't recognised. I don't know if this is because space is assigned to another shortcut, or because this isn't supported.
It is probably because the scroll version of search is buggy at the moment..
Ludek
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Re: A few questions about contextual search in a view

Post by Ludek »

Hi, thanks for feedback/testing.

I re-opened https://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=15185 and added these as items 3,6,7,8

As for the item 8 - the Barry's UI freeze (id 5367CF21)
Can you tell me on which component you performed the search? Was it media tree, artist grid, tracklist, genre grid? It is not clear from the log and would help me to find the cause.
Thanks!
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Re: A few questions about contextual search in a view

Post by Barry4679 »

Here is a new dump: 15BBCF21: cursor was within EntireLibrary>AllTracks in List View ... Search setting was set Scroll To Matches
I searched by just typing, ie. not invoked by the Magnifying Glass at top right.

I think that the earlier dump was at the same location, with the same settings.
from Mantis: 6) user is requesting a pop-up showing the text being searched
If I am the "user" you refered to, just to be clear the pop-up I was requesting was just the same as is already shown in Filter matches mode ... ie. this https://www.dropbox.com/s/e75jtv8qp92hf ... t.png?dl=0
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Re: A few questions about contextual search in a view

Post by Ludek »

Re the freeze, thx, this happens just when pressing "space" in the tracklist, tracked as:
https://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=15312
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Re: A few questions about contextual search in a view

Post by Barry4679 »

Ludek wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:51 am Re the freeze, thx, this happens just when pressing "space" in the tracklist
nb: only happens when sort set to Scroll To Matches

if set to Filter matches, search string containing embedded blanks works as expected ... ie a search string of "lo en" filters to album "The Low End Theory" ... and the track "LOve & success" by the band "split ENz", etc etc
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Re: A few questions about contextual search in a view

Post by Ludek »

If I am the "user" you refered to, just to be clear the pop-up I was requesting was just the same as is already shown in Filter matches mode ... ie. this https://www.dropbox.com/s/e75jtv8qp92hf ... t.png?dl=0
By the "user" I was referring pbryanw and his pop-up box.
I guess that the dropdown wouldn't work well with its current position, because the power scroll (incremental search) is performed on the active/focused component (not on the view). So if you select media tree node then the scroll is performed on the media tree (same as with any other app) changing the path in the breadcrumbs.
So I would rather shown a simple pop-up box located on the component being scrolled (be it tracklist, media tree, now playing list or tree in another dialog -- like Add/Rescan dialog > Add location > Add folders where the scroll works too).
i.e. I would like a pop-up box similar to the one that pop-ups when changing the volume on the player.

Testing other apps for inspiration, but they mostly simply doesn't show anything when performing the scroll by typing.
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Re: A few questions about contextual search in a view

Post by Ludek »

Barry4679 wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:01 am if set to Filter matches, search string containing embedded blanks works as expected ... ie a search string of "lo en" filters to album "The Low End Theory" ... and the track "LOve & success" by the band "split ENz", etc etc

Note that this isn't supposed to work the same way as filter matches.
This is going to work as in MM4 (related to https://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=15077 - see item a) there

a) When user focuses a list-view then it always scrolls to the first file/track starting with the search phrase within title of the track. When user sorts the file list by artist then it scrolls to the place where tracks from this artist are. Someone can call this "power scroll" ( https://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewt ... 87#p449182 ).
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Re: A few questions about contextual search in a view

Post by pbryanw »

@Barry4679 & @Ludek - Hi, thanks to both of you for your help with this
Ludek wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:16 am By the "user" I was referring pbryanw and his pop-up box.
i.e. I would like a pop-up box similar to the one that pop-ups when changing the volume on the player.

Testing other apps for inspiration, but they mostly simply doesn't show anything when performing the scroll by typing.
I don't know if a pop-up box would be the best way to implement this (I was just trying to think of a good way to do this. For example, if you made a mistake in your search term, or needed to edit it). I look forward to your solution to this.

I think being able to parse spaces, and having a keyboard shortcut that lets you scroll to next/previous results, would be more important to me though. The way I currently have my Music tree setup is using List view, ordered by Date Added. I think it would make incremental search (as it stands now) more functional if I sorted my library by title, but I prefer having my newest added tracks at the top of my library.
Ludek wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:16 am Note that this isn't supposed to work the same way as filter matches.
This is going to work as in MM4 (related to https://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=15077 - see item a) there

a) When user focuses a list-view then it always scrolls to the first file/track starting with the search phrase within title of the track. When user sorts the file list by artist then it scrolls to the place where tracks from this artist are. Someone can call this "power scroll" ( https://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewt ... 87#p449182 ).
Thank you for the information about how "power scroll" is supposed to work - I was unaware of the MM4 extension this is based on. I think search also worked differently in MM4 when you were in Now Playing - scrolling to matches, instead of filtering. I look forward to incremental search getting better, and more fuller featured, in the upcoming MM5 betas.
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Re: A few questions about contextual search in a view

Post by Barry4679 »

Ludek wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:16 am Testing other apps for inspiration, but they mostly simply doesn't show anything when performing the scroll by typing.
Is it relevant whether the display is triggered by just typing something, or is triggered by something like ctrl+F ?

Showing something is better than current situation which shows nothing ... having something pop up or down confirms that MM is receiving the key strokes (ie. the MM Window has focus), and also that they are used for a power-scroll type purpose, and aren't being used to edit a tag or something .... and in a scroll situation, with a showNext|Previous facility, it also provides visual confirmation of what was actually typed a search criteria (ie. detect any typos)

Some apps have more function inside the drop-down ... they all seem to display the current search string, and allow in-place editing, and back and forth navigation through result hits

here is the one from Sonos. ... a down arrow, when it is empty, or clicking the little down arrow 2nd left, opens the panel at the bottom, which confirms which panel is being searched, allows control over which panel is being searched, and a has a selection list of all recent searches ... or when you start typing something, a dropdown box opens showing relevant previous strings, and the up|down arrow key navigates through them
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jjn2ulzg5fec3 ... h.png?dl=0

Here is the one from Word. It has a preview pane of result snippets, to enable jump directly to what you are searching for. .. which is nice
https://www.dropbox.com/s/n3gl7wtpk9rda ... h.png?dl=0

The little down arrow (beside the 'x' to clear search criteria string) gives access to search option settings
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ifiik7jojhjxl ... s.png?dl=0

Here is the one from Markdown Plus, it also provides a cutdown version of what Word does ... if you scroll through the pane which is being searched, all occurances are high lit ... the arrows in the search widget navigate up and down through the occurrences ... the bottom controls give access to search settings; enable regex, and control case sensitivity, and control whole-word search
https://www.dropbox.com/s/w3h7qea0tzuf6 ... h.png?dl=0
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Re: A few questions about contextual search in a view

Post by pbryanw »

Hi, thanks for all the improvements to incremental search included in MM 5.0.0.2148 Beta. However, there are a few minor improvements I would still like to see (if possible):
  1. I think it could be a little more forgiving of slower typists like me. I found that when I came to typing space after my first word (at which point, I'd pause for a brief period), the search term would get parsed, without the second search word being typed. Maybe you could add a few extra milliseconds buffer for each letter input, and a second - or few seconds - extra (after the user finishes their input) before the finished search term is parsed (or use enter for parsing the search term)?
  2. I've also noticed that if I'm still typing my word(s) into incremental search, and include a space, this will pause the currently playing song.
  3. Thank you very much for the "Ctrl + down" shortcut to go to the next occurrence. I wonder if you could add a similar "Ctrl + up" shortcut to go to the previous occurrence?
  4. I know backspace is already assigned to another keyboard shortcut, but I feel being able to use this key in incremental search could be quite useful.
Even without these upgrades, incremental search has already become a lot more useful with the latest MM 5 update. Thank you for listening to mine and Barry4679's initial criticisms and list of improvements.
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Re: A few questions about contextual search in a view

Post by Ludek »

Thanks, re-opened and added your requests as items 9,10,11 : https://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=15185
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Re: A few questions about contextual search in a view [#15185]

Post by Barry4679 »

A couple more observations re version 2148

"filter matches" vs "scroll to matches" returns a different result set
Filter matches returns values where the beginning of a word matches the string, and the scroll option does not
ie. search on "thousand" ... the filter option includes a tag value of 'thousandS', but it is not matched in the scroll variant

Also it does not seem acceptable, in scroll mode, that the UI does not show the current search string, or even that there is an active search string
ie. set search to "scroll to matches ... display EntireLibrary>AllTracks in List View ... type something, eg. "thousands" ... it happens, but the UI doesn't display the current state ... could you do some variant of what happens in a filter search?, ie a magnifying with a plus sign it, or something
https://www.dropbox.com/s/chgie7p9hti93 ... .png?dl=0

And put your advice re ctrl+up|down in the tool tip for the magnifying glass?

Also while testing it I got a crash: C4916A1D
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