Tagging confusion

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Jukebox
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:45 am

Tagging confusion

Post by Jukebox »

I use 3 different apps to manage my mp3 library.

Firstly, I rip my own CDs with Exact Audio Copy, alongside the accurate rip database.
My EAC tagging options are as follows...
Write ID3v1 tags unchecked.
Write ID3v2 tags with a padding of 4kB checked.
Use ID3v2.4.0 tages instead of ID3v2.3.0 tags checked.
Write ID3v2 tags using UTF16 checked.

I then tweak the tags with Tag&Rename to the way I like them (I admit to being very anal about that).
There are various reasons that I find Tag&Rename preferable to MediaMonkey for this purpose.

Then I import them into MediaMonkey, which I much prefer over iTunes.

I've been having a few issues that have been driving me crazy...

When I rip a CD, I start with the downloaded tags, as this saves me time, but, as I said, I fix them to the way I like things done.
I have Tag&Rename set, in Advanced settings to 'Delete ID3v1 tag when deleting ID3v2 tag', and have 'On saving ID3v2 tag, always create/update ID3v1 tag' checked.
On the Tags tab, I have 'Always save ID3v2 tags in Unicode' checked.

When I load the files into MediaMonkey, any fields that were already filled when I downloaded the tagging info from an online database somehow revert to that state. When I open the files in Tag&Rename, they seem to have reverted, and I have to redo my tweaks. It seems that MediaMonkey is somehow finding the original tags, that I thought were deleted, or overwritten, and restorred them.

Strangely, if I then tweak the tags again in Tag&Rename, then import into MediaMonkey again, they are fine.

Do I somehow have MediaMonkey set to reread the tags from an online database? I don't believe so, so why is MediaMonkey ignoring the changes I made in Tag&Rename, but only the first time I make them?

Another irritating issue is with downloaded digital files. I often find they show the full date in dd/mm/yyyy format in MediaMonkey, even after I've changed it to my preferred YYYY in Tag&Rename, yet they still show up as yyyy when I view them in Tag&Rename. It seems to have not overwritten the original format, which MediaMonkey defaults to. If I want to fix that, I have to change the date field in MediaMonkey.

All I really want to do, is set up Exact Audio Copy, Tag&Rename & MediaMonkey so that whatever info is in the tags when I save the files in Tag&Rename is the info that shows in MediaMonkey after I've imported them.

I realise that I'm complicating my life by insisting on using 3 separate aps for all this, but it shouldn't be that hard.

For what it's worth I am using an up to date version of 32bit Windows 10, and all the apps are also up to date.
Lowlander
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Location: MediaMonkey 5

Re: Tagging confusion

Post by Lowlander »

What MediaMonkey reads/writes: https://www.mediamonkey.com/wiki/WebHel ... erties/5.0

You may have enable Lookup missing information via Auto-Tag), but otherwise there is no tagging by MediaMonkey when you scan files into MediaMonkey. I do recommend disabling Infer Properties under Tools > Options > Library as that can guess tags from folder/filename.
producer_ben
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2021 11:06 pm

Re: Tagging confusion

Post by producer_ben »

ID3 tagging is such a confusing and frustrating process, I do feel your pain with this.

I too use EAC and I have noticed that it doesn't actually fill all the tags correctly. This is normally because whoever submited the album didn't do a very good job.

Myself, I rip with EAC and keep any "results" it finds. Then I go into MP3Tag and check and complete the tag data.

I've also noticed that EAC may download the album artwork, but it doesn't actually embed it in the music file tag. So using MP3Tag, I can embed the artwork with a simple drag and drop procedure.

If you haven't tried MP3Tag, I highly recomend giving it a go. Even though it is called MP3Tag, it can actually do a whole host of extensions, for example I'm a FLAC kinda guy and it works a charm :)
Barry4679
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Re: Tagging confusion

Post by Barry4679 »

Jukebox wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:07 am When I load the files into MediaMonkey, any fields that were already filled when I downloaded the tagging info from an online database somehow revert to that state. When I open the files in Tag&Rename, they seem to have reverted, and I have to redo my tweaks. It seems that MediaMonkey is somehow finding the original tags, that I thought were deleted, or overwritten, and restorred them.

Strangely, if I then tweak the tags again in Tag&Rename, then import into MediaMonkey again, they are fine.
Doesn't that suggest that they are not being persisted in your first Tag&Rename session?
Jukebox wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:07 am Another irritating issue is with downloaded digital files. I often find they show the full date in dd/mm/yyyy format in MediaMonkey, even after I've changed it to my preferred YYYY in Tag&Rename, yet they still show up as yyyy when I view them in Tag&Rename. It seems to have not overwritten the original format, which MediaMonkey defaults to. If I want to fix that, I have to change the date field in MediaMonkey.
Maybe your Tag&Rename setting is influencing how it displays the tag, but not how it stores the tag.
Jukebox wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:07 am I realise that I'm complicating my life by insisting on using 3 separate aps for all this, but it shouldn't be that hard.
Yes, to the first part of that sentence.
What are the unique benefits that come from Tag&Rename?
Maybe someone can help you with those, allowing you to simplify your work flow?

You clearly know more than I do about tagging mechanisms.
The little that I understand is, that under the covers, tagging is a bit like the Wild West, with evolving, loose and differing standards across the various music formats. So your "ask" may not be as simple as you hope.
Want a dark skin for MM5? This is the one that works best for me .. elegant, compact & clear.
Jukebox
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:45 am

Re: Tagging confusion

Post by Jukebox »

Thanks for all the replies/suggestions.
Lowlander wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:15 pm You may have enable Lookup missing information via Auto-Tag), but otherwise there is no tagging by MediaMonkey when you scan files into MediaMonkey. I do recommend disabling Infer Properties under Tools > Options > Library as that can guess tags from folder/filename.
I've unchecked that box. Maybe it'll help.
I tagged a CD today that I couldn't find any online information on at all, which meant I had to fill all the tags in by hand. Yet, when I'd scanned it into MediaMonkey, it somehow changed all the track titles to "Track 1", "Track 2" etc. I'm thinking I must have Tag & Rename set to write a different version of the tags to the ones MediaMonkey is reading, but I have MM set to store propertiees from ID3v1 & Id3v2 tags. If I only filled in one of those via EAC & T&R, surely MM should take it's info from the one that is filled in, not the empty one?
Metadata lookup only has lyrics & artwork listed as possibles, and neither are checked. Have I missed a checkbox elsewhere?
Jukebox
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:45 am

Re: Tagging confusion

Post by Jukebox »

producer_ben wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:01 am I too use EAC and I have noticed that it doesn't actually fill all the tags correctly. This is normally because whoever submited the album didn't do a very good job.
Tell me about it! LOL
Myself, I rip with EAC and keep any "results" it finds. Then I go into MP3Tag and check and complete the tag data.
I do the same, but with Tag & Rename. T&R is a powerful tool, which I've grown used to. I can't imagine there's all that much difference in that & MP3Tag, though.
I've also noticed that EAC may download the album artwork, but it doesn't actually embed it in the music file tag. So using MP3Tag, I can embed the artwork with a simple drag and drop procedure.
EAC certainly does embed the artwork in the files, if you use the inbuilt search & download. This is, of course, dependent on whether, or not it finds any. Irrelevant in my case, as, being me, I have to make sure all my album art files are in exactly the same size, and decent quality, so I invariably have to clean them up, or find/scan better ones.
producer_ben
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2021 11:06 pm

Re: Tagging confusion

Post by producer_ben »

Jukebox wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 8:35 pm
producer_ben wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:01 am I too use EAC and I have noticed that it doesn't actually fill all the tags correctly. This is normally because whoever submited the album didn't do a very good job.
Tell me about it! LOL
Myself, I rip with EAC and keep any "results" it finds. Then I go into MP3Tag and check and complete the tag data.
I do the same, but with Tag & Rename. T&R is a powerful tool, which I've grown used to. I can't imagine there's all that much difference in that & MP3Tag, though.
I've also noticed that EAC may download the album artwork, but it doesn't actually embed it in the music file tag. So using MP3Tag, I can embed the artwork with a simple drag and drop procedure.
EAC certainly does embed the artwork in the files, if you use the inbuilt search & download. This is, of course, dependent on whether, or not it finds any. Irrelevant in my case, as, being me, I have to make sure all my album art files are in exactly the same size, and decent quality, so I invariably have to clean them up, or find/scan better ones.

Good to know about EAC, I'll check my settings again as just leaving the artwork in the folder and not in the tag is pretty annoying as I'm sure you can imagine :)

If you can bare to give another tag software a go, give MP3 tag a whirl. I've used so many taggers before and 40% just corrupt the tag, while the other 50% put in the information, but in the wrong tag fields.
Jukebox
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:45 am

Re: Tagging confusion

Post by Jukebox »

producer_ben wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:45 am If you can bare to give another tag software a go, give MP3 tag a whirl. I've used so many taggers before and 40% just corrupt the tag, while the other 50% put in the information, but in the wrong tag fields.
Sorry for very late reply. My December consisted of a water leak, no lights and a collapsed ceiling. Then January started with COVID (my partner, not me... yet. Mild case, though, so don't worry.)

I downloaded MP3tag to give it a try, but it doesn't seem to include tags for label & catalog number, which is annoying. I could put those in the comments, but I often use that field for other info.
Peke
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Re: Tagging confusion

Post by Peke »

Jukebox wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:48 pm Sorry for very late reply. My December consisted of a water leak, no lights and a collapsed ceiling. Then January started with COVID (my partner, not me... yet. Mild case, though, so don't worry.)
Hope everything is OK now.
Jukebox wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:48 pm I downloaded MP3tag to give it a try, but it doesn't seem to include tags for label & catalog number, which is annoying. I could put those in the comments, but I often use that field for other info.
I wonder if you open Track properties in MM5 and under custom Tab do you see extended Tags written by other apps?
Best regards,
Peke
MediaMonkey Team lead QA/Tech Support guru
Admin of Free MediaMonkey addon Site HappyMonkeying
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Jukebox
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:45 am

Re: Tagging confusion

Post by Jukebox »

I misjudged Mp3Tag. It's always the way, when you switch apps to do the same job. Everything is laid out different, and it takes a while to work out. It actually takes longer than it would if you'd not used another app for the same job in the past.

Just to be really annoying, I've now found out how to make sure Tag&Rename copies the new tags to all versions (IDV1, IDV2 etc.) so I can now use either, with no problem. They both have their advantages & disadvantages, so I'll likely keep both.

My other half has survived COVID, but now I have it. Ain't life fun?
Peke
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Re: Tagging confusion

Post by Peke »

Hi,
Jukebox wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:22 am Ain't life fun?
It always is.
Jukebox wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:22 am Just to be really annoying, I've now found out how to make sure Tag&Rename copies the new tags to all versions (IDV1, IDV2 etc.) so I can now use either, with no problem. They both have their advantages & disadvantages, so I'll likely keep both.
That could be tedious job. If you mingle hardware in the mix, then you have big ..... up as no one knows what is what and where it is. ID3 Standard was not changed for years and apps fight each other who is right or not :(
Best regards,
Peke
MediaMonkey Team lead QA/Tech Support guru
Admin of Free MediaMonkey addon Site HappyMonkeying
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