DB / Tag Mismatches in majority of library [#19480][#19483]

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telecore
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:20 pm

DB / Tag Mismatches in majority of library [#19480][#19483]

Post by telecore »

I've been learning about MM5 after using MM4 for a long time and came across "Files to Edit" and "DB / Tag Mismatches" - the problem is that most of my library of about 20,000 songs is indicated as a "DB / Tag Mismatch" (about 15,000) - I have been switching out columns so that I can find highlighted items, but the only thing that I have found so far is "Extended Tags" - nothing of significance seems to be highlighted - given that the majority of my library is ALAC files ripped using iTunes, does Apple put some extended tags in there that MM5 doesn't see or use?

Also, there is a 2nd type of unknown mismatch that I haven't found yet with files that seem to be M4A's purchased from iTunes (in AAC 256 kbps format)

Has anyone else observed this issue?
Ludek
Posts: 4947
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:00 am

Re: DB / Tag Mismatches in majority of library

Post by Ludek »

Hi,
debug log (item 4b here: https://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewt ... 30&t=86643 )
will show why the tracks appears in DB/Tag Mismatches.

BTW: If you right-click the tracks and select the first item 'Update tags...' from the context menu then do the files still appear in the "DB/Tag Mismatches" node after refresh?
IanRTaylorUK
Posts: 536
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:41 pm

Re: DB / Tag Mismatches in majority of library

Post by IanRTaylorUK »

telecore wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 10:34 pm I've been learning about MM5 after using MM4 for a long time and came across "Files to Edit" and "DB / Tag Mismatches" - the problem is that most of my library of about 20,000 songs is indicated as a "DB / Tag Mismatch" (about 15,000) - I have been switching out columns so that I can find highlighted items, but the only thing that I have found so far is "Extended Tags" - nothing of significance seems to be highlighted - given that the majority of my library is ALAC files ripped using iTunes, does Apple put some extended tags in there that MM5 doesn't see or use?

Has anyone else observed this issue?
Hi Telecore, yes I observe similar.

No extended tag issues with MMW4. Exact same files copied to folder exclusively for MMW5. The odd file in an album set shows DB/Tag Mismatches i.e. not the whole album. Nothing comes to mind as to why just a handful of files in my whole library show the problem.

Updating / synchronising tags does not clear the problem. It appears to be the Extended Tags where MMW5 is seeing a difference.

My "Fix":
1). Remove all the Extended Tags
2). Add a dummy extended tag - just one.
3). Update tags

The file(s) are removed from the DB / Tag Mismatches.

Now if I remove the new Extended Tag, then the file re-appears in the DB / Tag Mismatches list. Curious!
Ian Taylor
Ludek
Posts: 4947
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:00 am

Re: DB / Tag Mismatches in majority of library

Post by Ludek »

Hi,
I am unable to replicate, for me editing Extended tags does not cause the track to appear under the "DB/Tag mismatches" node.

Could you please retest with the newest build 2673 : https://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewt ... 86639&sd=d
and if the problem persists then share the problematic file with us for analyzing?
Ludek
Posts: 4947
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:00 am

Re: DB / Tag Mismatches in majority of library

Post by Ludek »

Nevertheless I can confirm that fields like 'Album artist' and 'Extended tags' are in the comparison, but aren't visible by default.
I entered https://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=19480 to list all the columns by default.
IanRTaylorUK
Posts: 536
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:41 pm

Re: DB / Tag Mismatches in majority of library

Post by IanRTaylorUK »

Thanks Ludek,

I will send the files in a PM.
Ian Taylor
Andre_H
Posts: 415
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:04 pm
Location: Germany

Re: DB / Tag Mismatches in majority of library

Post by Andre_H »

I can confirm these "discrepancy": I get about 250 hits out of 18.000 songs under the "mismatches" search, all of them have the "Extended Tags" field highlighted (and none other field, i enabled all available fields to the view).

I don't (knowingly) use any extended tags. Neither the track properties in MMW5 nor an tag analysis by MP3Tag show any extended tags; also an SQL query shows no content in [songs].[ExtendedTags].

Adding extended tags, save them, then delete them doesn't change anything for me.


Edit:
Tried an "UPDATE SONGS SET ExtendedTags = '' WHERE [ID]=21616"
"SELECT ID, AlbumArtist, SongTitle, SongTitle, ExtendedTags FROM [Songs] WHERE [ID]=21616" shows no content in "ExtendedTags ".
Track is still in list.
- MMW 5.0.4.2690 (non-portable, shared DB & files) on Windows 2016 # only essential addons # my 24/7 media server
- MMW MMW 5.0.4.2690 (non-portable, shared DB & files) on Windows 10 # playing, testing skins & addons # my desktop app
- MMA Pro (2.0.0.1063) on Android 10, 11, 12 Phones & Tabs # WiFi Sync # playing

- MP3Tag, MP3Diags, MP3DirectCut, IrfanView
Ludek
Posts: 4947
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:00 am

Re: DB / Tag Mismatches in majority of library [#19480]

Post by Ludek »

Thanks!
I haven't been able to replicate with Ian's sample files, but was able to replicate with combination of Ian's DB and sample file.

Tracking as https://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=19483 (details there in Mantis).

Not sure whether the "double tag" issue is also the Andre's case (as I haven't seen his sample data yet).

EDIT: and finally found the steps to reproduce also:

1) Select MP3 file (isn't reproducible with FLAC)
2) Go to Properties > Custom and insert the same tag twice like this:
date: 2003
date: 2003
3) Go to DB / Tag mismatches
=> track is shown there with Extended tags highlighted
4) Right click, Update tags, press F5 to refresh
=> track is still shown
i.e. in the DB the tag is twice, but in the file tag itself it is always once
IanRTaylorUK
Posts: 536
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:41 pm

Re: DB / Tag Mismatches in majority of library [#19480]

Post by IanRTaylorUK »

Many Thanks Ludek,

I was beginning to think I was going a bit mad as the "mismatches" would come and go!

In my library of 38,000 mp3s, 32270 have extended tags with 1235 different content strings. One "unique" string might be in one album (or more I guess). Only 100 of these different strings contain "date" - 87 with duplicate "date*date" and even some with triplicate dates!

The longest entry in extended tags is 383 characters, and goes something like this:

"comment: <mediacaster>\r\n <cuepoints ignore=\""media-start,media-end\"">\r\n <cuepoint time=\""00:00:00.000\"" type=\""preroll_2\"" />\r\n <cuepoint time=\""00:13:18.410\"" type=\""midroll_2\"">\r\n <targeting>\r\n <attr key=\""tags\"">midroll_pos"

The shortest is just 9 characters: "Engineer"

Given this, I am thinking that I might just clear ALL the extended tags as I DO NOT use any of this information (which tends to overlap with other tag fields). Presumeably, this might help with size / performance.

Any reason why I should keep any of this redundant(?) information?
Ian Taylor
Ludek
Posts: 4947
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:00 am

Re: DB / Tag Mismatches in majority of library [#19480]

Post by Ludek »

The question rather is how this duplicate "date*date" info got into your database, because when I scanned your sample files to my library it was there only once (as expected) => MP3 cannot store same custom tag twice.

So unless you added them manually there must have been a bug in the past adding them twice?

Anyhow yes, if you don't need to use extended tags info then you can clear it to reduce DB/tag size.
IanRTaylorUK
Posts: 536
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:41 pm

Re: DB / Tag Mismatches in majority of library [#19480]

Post by IanRTaylorUK »

Thanks for quick reply Ludek,

I have cleared ALL the Extended tags under the Music node only - roughly a "decade" at a time as sorted by the Extended Tag column.

Files to be tagged in status bar dropped from ~11000 to 0, whilst files with DB / Tag Mismatches increased from a few screens to 5935.

Stopped playing and exited MMW5, waited to ensure all processes shut-down etc. MM5.DB 268616 KB

Re-opened MMW5 and looked at DB / Tag Mismatches. Monitoring of files quicker, 18 "Mismatches" only 1 highlighted with Extended Tags. Select Home node and shut-down again.

Re-opened MMW5 with Home node, then switch to DB / Tag Mismatch after rescanning complete. Same 18 "mismatches". 17 due to "involved" people, 1 extended tags (cleared by adding tag IAN:Test). Dealt with ALL 18 then shut-down again.

Excellent ALL cleared!

Backup database / shut-down / re-open / maintain DB. MM5.DB now 249016 KB

Would WiFi sync of 3-4 Android devices at the same time have caused a problem like this?
Ian Taylor
Andre_H
Posts: 415
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:04 pm
Location: Germany

Re: DB / Tag Mismatches in majority of library [#19480]

Post by Andre_H »

IanRTaylorUK wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 1:35 pm I have cleared ALL the Extended tags under the Music node only
Can you briefly explain how you deleted the extended tags? I would like to try that too...

Thanks!
- MMW 5.0.4.2690 (non-portable, shared DB & files) on Windows 2016 # only essential addons # my 24/7 media server
- MMW MMW 5.0.4.2690 (non-portable, shared DB & files) on Windows 10 # playing, testing skins & addons # my desktop app
- MMA Pro (2.0.0.1063) on Android 10, 11, 12 Phones & Tabs # WiFi Sync # playing

- MP3Tag, MP3Diags, MP3DirectCut, IrfanView
IanRTaylorUK
Posts: 536
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:41 pm

Re: DB / Tag Mismatches in majority of library [#19480]

Post by IanRTaylorUK »

Hi Andre,

The short answer - using multi-select and properties.

The longer answer:
===============
To delete the Extended Tags (ET), I went to Music Node ... All Tracks (I wanted to exclude Podcasts and Audiobooks as I am not certain whether ET have more significance for these types).

Next, I set the centre panel display to include ALL the columns and present in my preferred order i.e. Type / Artist / Album Artist / Album / Disk / Track / Title...Path / Filename / Added / Extended Tracks / Timestamp... I wanted ET and Path viewable together as this allow you to see whether same Artist / Album.

Then I used the ET column to sort. I started with just one track and then Properties / Custom / Select Tag Name and then Delete. Then I did a whole album, then several albums, then a whole year, then a decade at a time. Once I got the year / decade, then typically there were several / many tags - so multiple deletes.

Once you get to Decade at a time, it is surprising how quick it is to edit.

To Double Check
==============
I used File...Reports...FileList and selected ALL 75 columns and saved as CSV file "MMW5FileList21Oct2022.csv". The file size for the same export had reduced by over 1000 KB. Importing this file into a new table in Microsoft Access (delimited with commas / double quotes with first row containing field names and no primary key) will likely result in import errors. But if you set the Comments and ET fields to "Long Text" (in my case) no import errors.

Whilst you can parse the Access table directly, creating a quick query allows you to specify some criteria e.g. ET "Is Not Null". In my case this showed 391 files still had ET! 315 of these were Type "Classical Music" with the remainder as Type "Podcasts". I edited ALL 315 Classical Music mp3s in one go but left the Podcasts!

My preference / recommendation is to come out of MMW5 after doing anything "intensive" like editing 100s of files! Then I let MMW5 complete its rescan and consider doing a backup and database maintenance. The MM5.DB is down from 249000 KB to 248000 KB. MMW5 now opens and rescans the 38000 in ~20s - I think this is the best I have seen!

Hope this helps.
Ian Taylor
Andre_H
Posts: 415
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:04 pm
Location: Germany

Re: DB / Tag Mismatches in majority of library [#19480]

Post by Andre_H »

Thank you for the explanation!

i will try this.
- MMW 5.0.4.2690 (non-portable, shared DB & files) on Windows 2016 # only essential addons # my 24/7 media server
- MMW MMW 5.0.4.2690 (non-portable, shared DB & files) on Windows 10 # playing, testing skins & addons # my desktop app
- MMA Pro (2.0.0.1063) on Android 10, 11, 12 Phones & Tabs # WiFi Sync # playing

- MP3Tag, MP3Diags, MP3DirectCut, IrfanView
Andre_H
Posts: 415
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:04 pm
Location: Germany

Re: DB / Tag Mismatches in majority of library [#19480]

Post by Andre_H »

There's something strange about that ... i startet with a list of 226 Files in "missmatch".

Did as you told, music node, enabled field ET to show, actually found a few files (far less then 226!), deleted all ET's i found. closed MMW, made a copy of the db-file, restartet MMW, made a "quick database optimisation" (second option, not sure what it is in englisch, in german its "Datenbank optimieren (schnell)" ... now "missmatch" lists 229 track. 3 more then before the cleaning ... next did a complete database optimization (option 3 in dialog, "Datenbank neu aufbauen (langsam)" ... now there are 115 hits in "missmatch".

i guess i ignore those for the next time.

at least, the database went down from 124 to 75MB.
- MMW 5.0.4.2690 (non-portable, shared DB & files) on Windows 2016 # only essential addons # my 24/7 media server
- MMW MMW 5.0.4.2690 (non-portable, shared DB & files) on Windows 10 # playing, testing skins & addons # my desktop app
- MMA Pro (2.0.0.1063) on Android 10, 11, 12 Phones & Tabs # WiFi Sync # playing

- MP3Tag, MP3Diags, MP3DirectCut, IrfanView
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