Lyrics download & sync (metadata doesn't refresh) [#19922 #19747]

[SteveB23]

Can I ask for the details of how lyrics download and sync? I've been playing with this for a few weeks now and I'm seeing inconsistent results. Note: I'm fairly new to MM (6-8 months maybe?) and until recently I'd never used the lyrics feature, so I'm not sure exactly how it should be working.

My environment: MMA Pro 2.0.0.1080 on a Pixel 6a phone, MMW 5.0.4.2690 standard running on Windows 10. I have an extensive MP3 collection in Windows, with lots of hand-edited tags. (I'm a little OCD, so I've put in a lot of work over the years to get them right, using Mp3tag.)

I discovered the lyrics feature on MMA 2 just a few weeks ago, so I started downloading and editing them there on some of my playlists. After syncing, I was pleased to see the lyrics show up in MMW, and I can also see them in the original MP3 files in Windows.

So, my questions:

First, editing text is kinda difficult on the phone, so I'd like to transition to editing them on the Windows side, in MMW. I also just today discovered the magnifying glass icon to initiate a search/download. However, the changes don't seem to be syncing back to my phone. I'm assuming the sync should be bi-directional, but is that correct? Are there settings to control this?

Second, are the lyrics stored only in the MP3 tags, or are they also stored separately in the MM database? I'm trying to figure out why I can see them on the Windows side but they don't get pushed over to MMA. I see them in the "UNSYNCEDLYRICS" tag in the MP3 file. Is that a clue?

And third, what site(s) are used for the lyric search? I've run into at least one song where the search is successful from MMW, but from MMA it fails. Again, are there settings to control that?

Thanks,
Steve

[Lowlander]

1) Are you saying changes in MMW in Lyrics fail to Sync to MMA. Was the file edited on MMA too?

2) Saved in both by default.

3) In MMW you have control, not in MMA.

[SteveB23]

1) Are you saying changes in MMW in Lyrics fail to Sync to MMA. Was the file edited on MMA too?

I took a song that had no lyrics (i.e. the lookup failed in MMA) and downloaded & edited the lyrics in MMW. I synced and the lyrics did not show up in MMA. So unless MMA somehow inserted empty lyrics and prevented them from being updated, no, the file was not edited on MMA. I just synched and checked again, and when I play that song, MMA still performs a search and reports "Lyrics not found".

However, your question brings up the question of how MM handles conflicts, i.e. if the lyrics (or artwork, or any other properties) were updated on both platforms? Does it compare the last-updated date/times and sync up the most recent change, or does it ignore the conflict and let them both stand as-is?

2) Saved in both by default.

OK, thanks. So when I view the lyrics in MMW, am I seeing the database version or the MP3 tag?

3) In MMW you have control, not in MMA

Cool, I had not been able to find this before. Does MMA use the same list of sources? If so, why can MMW find the lyrics but MMA cannot?

Thanks,
Steve

[PeterServatius]

Following, as I have the same problem.

[SteveB23]

I finally got that one song's lyrics to sync, but clearly there are some issues that still need work.

Yesterday I performed a sync several times to try and force the lyrics to go over (from MMW to MMA). Nothing worked.

This morning I tried again and verified that they did not sync. Then I edited the lyrics on MMW and confirmed that the MP3 file had changed. I performed the synced on the phone, and the OLD lyrics showed up in MMA. It's like the lyrics or even the file itself had been cached somewhere and the sync was looking at the cache, not the current database or file. Really strange!

About 20 minutes later, I synched again, and this time the latest changes finally came over.

Unfortunately, that's not the end of the story. I kept playing with this, allowing MMA to download lyrics for other songs and synching them back to MMW. On a number of occasions I went back to that one song, and MMA would again display nothing and search for lyrics and fail. If I got completely out of MMA and back in, sometimes the lyrics would display and sometimes not. It's very frustrating. And I should note that it's not just that one song. This seems to happen most on songs where the lyrics were just added recently, like it takes some time to settle in and stabilize.

Also, when things get funky like this, sometimes MMA seems to get stuck on a set of lyrics and continues to display the same text even when I change songs.

Please let me know if there's anything you would like me to try, or if I can send you any logs.

Thanks,
Steve

[Lowlander]

Is MMA set to Update database and MMW set to Update tags when looking up Lyrics?

[SteveB23]

Yes, in MMA in the "Lookup information" section, "Lookup missing lyrics" and "Update database" are both checked.

No, in MMW in the "Background metadata lookup" area, "Lyrics" is checked but "Update tags" is only available in Gold, which I do not have.

I noticed this yesterday, and it made me scratch my head, since it appears that the MP3 tags actually are being updated.

[Lowlander]

If you edit other fields it's likely the Lyrics will be saved too.

[SteveB23]

I don't make any other changes in MMW or MMA. If I want to update anything other than lyrics, I do it in Mp3tag.

[Peke]

I don't make any other changes in MMW or MMA. If I want to update anything other than lyrics, I do it in Mp3tag.

Note, that any changes outside MM will not be automatically updated in MM and if you edit such non updated tags will overwrite updated, so updates can be lost.

EDIT: Except if you setup Folder monitoring then MM will update database as in most cases any app that update tags also update modified date on files and MM can pick it up.

[rusty]

Hi,

I suspect that this is a refresh problem and that the metadata is actually being updated on sync, but when it's viewed via the current playing list, the 'old' metadata is shown. This is being tracked at https://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=19922 (examples of the issue are also described at https://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=19747).

Can you confirm whether this is the issue you're observing (if this is the bug you're seeing, then changing the playing list and then reverting to the original playing list will cause the metadata to display correctly)?

-Rusty

[SteveB23]

Thanks, Rusty. The idea of the metadata needing to be refreshed does seem to describe the problem pretty well, and I had kinda come to that conclusion myself. It's good to know that others have seen it as well and it's already being looked at. (BTW, I am unable to actually view the issue at ventismedia.com, since I don't have an account there, so I'm going just by your description.)

I believe an additional symptom of the issue may be what I gave in my last post:

Also, when things get funky like this, sometimes MMA seems to get stuck on a set of lyrics and continues to display the same text even when I change songs.

The only ways I've been able to resolve this, similar to the workaround you gave yesterday, is to change to a different playlist or, as I had been doing, to completely exit MMA and come back in.

That addresses questions 1 and 2, so I'm happy with that. It leaves the third question, which was only partially answered:

What site(s) are used for the lyric search [on MMA]? I've run into at least one song [several of them now] where the lyric search is successful from MMW, but from MMA it fails.

Thanks,
Steve

[rusty]

Re. the bugs: you should be able to see them now.

Re. lyric search, we generally have MMA and MMW use the same set of sites (which you can see in the MMW options config), but we usually implement changes to this in MMW first and then in MMA.

-Rusty

[rusty]

FYI most of the metadata refresh issues have been fixed in build 1099 which has been released to Production (awaiting approval). If you can't wait, it's currently available via Testing (beta).

-Rusty