Shuffle not working as it used to [#18988]

[Peke]

Hi,
It is not how to create new playlist from Now Playing, but remember that I also browse My library and double click to add to playlist tracks and I need to do those three clicks + three to delete previous one and create new, where i loose where I left in browsing.

[Rob_S]

You keep adding new requirements to the process!!!

Right click, send to , playlist, or drag and drop from another tab for something that isn't likely the main part of the job seems a small price to pay to avoid the risk of losing your list entirely.

[Peke]

Right click, send to , playlist, or drag and drop from another tab for something that isn't likely the main part of the job seems a small price to pay to avoid the risk of losing your list entirely.

I would rather have it seen resolved and improved Even limiting by spreadsheet format I made simple Spreadsheet file that preserve original order and also show what will be played next in shuffle mode https://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view ... 988#c72103

[lindholm]

I like to have my playlist sorted by name, this new shuffle mode completely breaks this for me

[Rob_S]

You can easily do this by creating a playlist from now playing, in title sorted order, and open it in a new tab.

This way you can have now playing displayed in the order in which it is now playing, which makes sense to me, and view or edit the same list in your other tab in title order whenever you want.

I really don't fathom why anyone would want the "Now Playing" list displayed in any order other than what it is now playing.

[Ludek]

I really don't fathom why anyone would want the "Now Playing" list displayed in any order other than what it is now playing.

Yep, it also makes perfect sense for me to display tracks in playing order rather than anything else..

[Peke]

I really don't fathom why anyone would want the "Now Playing" list displayed in any order other than what it is now playing.

Because added order is Bit to Bit or Harmonic Mixing Order while Shuffle Playback order is just temp state of mind that I want listen one random track from carefully selected and ordered tracks. Otherwise Shuffle at current state is completely unusable for me.

Also your idea with playlist copy/paste and tab views do not work When you control MM using these:

or
http://remotew.free.fr/downloads/remotewonderplus.pdf

[Rob_S]

So, dumb question maybe, if you are sitting at the opposite end of the room using your remote, how are you seeing what order it is displayed at?

Are you telling us that you would create a carefully ordered list in now playing, and not save it for future use?

[Peke]

So, dumb question maybe, if you are sitting at the opposite end of the room using your remote, how are you seeing what order it is displayed at?

I always want to have them in order I added them and I know the order when I get back to PC, so seeing them Scrambled makes me mad as hell. Often procedure is Enable Shuffle -> Next Track -> Disable Shuffle.

Are you telling us that you would create a carefully ordered list in now playing, and not save it for future use?

Eventually yes, but it can take 3-5k tracks till I decide I am satisfied with list.

I just remembered another case I have 10 BBQ list saved and use https://mmremote.net/ to control MM in house 50 meters away. So again Enable Shuffle -> Next Track -> Disable Shuffle was normal till 5.1, now I need to scroll few k of tracks and ruin the surprise what will be played next.

[Rob_S]

OK, so I think many of the use cases you mention are highly unusual to say the least.

Programs are usually designed around more "normal" users and ways of doing things, and an outlier would be totally ignored. Been there, had that done. If you choose to leave a carefully curated list unsaved for long periods of time, I suppose that is up to you.

Now however in this case of MM 5.1, since the programming exists for the mystery shuffle, why not leave it in as an option for those (few ?) who might find it appealing? When using this mode, the track list would remain as entered.

I think the default should be as it is now in 5.1, but I can see no reason not to make available again the old way of "playing mystery shuffle", as an option. When playing using this option, right click play now, previous track and next track could just be greyed out, as they never worked properly.

[Peke]

Hi,

OK, so I think many of the use cases you mention are highly unusual to say the least.

I am curious, as I have not seen any hardware or Software device that behave like MM 5.1 now, this include, Sonos, Onkyo, Yamaha, Pioneer, Sony, ... And as of software I tested 20+ apps and non permanently shuffles now playing when turning ON, but all revert to Added playback order when turned off. Do you have any app/hardware example that works like MM 5.1?

If you choose to leave a carefully curated list unsaved for long periods of time, I suppose that is up to you.

My example was maybe bit extreme, I can give you much simpler example that after you turn shuffle on in order to get things back you will loose numerous clicks in order to do that.

I think the default should be as it is now in 5.1

Here we agree 100%, I only disagree that shuffle execute permanent randomize on Now Playing because like 30+ years ago Shuffle is still temp feature and it should be reversible not permanent.

When playing using this option, right click play now, previous track and next track could just be greyed out, as they never worked properly.

Exactly, that is why it needs to be correctly implemented as like you I think that current state of representing Shuffle is much better and I like it, but destructive nature to Now playing makes it unusable. If I wanted to Shuffle my Now playing i could do that 10+ years ago in MM3 with ⋮ -> Edit -> Randomize list and would get same thing as shuffle on in MM5.1, I do not need what I already had but I lost normal Shuffle I use for 30+ years.
Finally, YES current behavior is better as it fixes many many things that did not worked and if not Destructive it would make MM unique, but unfortunately at current state makes it unusable and removes many existing features from MM.

Have you even tried my sample spreadsheet that proves it does not need to be destructive while vastly improving MM behavior?

Even Dictionary words Shuffle and Ramdomize/Random have different meanings, so it is not same thing.

[mattl1979]

I thought it was just me. Upgraded to v5.1 to fix an issue with UNC syncing, but now came up with this new "pre-shuffle". This is very similar to how other apps do their shuffling, but totally unexpected after over a decade of using it the way it was. This new method for MM is annoying.

Some people may like this new method, but at least provide an option to revert back to the original 5.0 method which I guess is more of "Randomize Playback" opposed to "Shuffling" as essentially mentioned in previous messages.

If I double-click on a song, I want it to play that song immediately and then continue randomly selected songs in the playlist afterwards.

Edit: Looking at viewtopic.php?p=510069, I see there's a workaround. Not the most ideal, but if I change the option to Play Now (without clearing) and pre-shuffle (right-click "All Tracks" -> "Play Shuffled"), this is close to the previous method. Just requires a couple extra clicks.

[Rob_S]

In the release notes for 5.1 so far, I find only the above little note to reflect a major change (improvement, I think). There is little info on how it is supposed to work, and how to use its hidden features.

No one knows if the issue of being able to revert to original sort order in the now playing list has been or will be addressed.

I think it would be beneficial if somebody would describe fully what has changed and how to make use of this feature, and what if anything will be addressed in terms of the reported issues.

[a_daley]

Totally agree with this - would help what has been implemented and how a user might use them.

[rusty]

We'll definitely update the documentation as we get closer to release. For now, it's safe to say that almost anything that doesn't perform as intuitively as you'd expect is a bug

-Rusty