My library is gone; everything reset in the app including the license

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rockisalive
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My library is gone; everything reset in the app including the license

Post by rockisalive »

I opened a ticket but I wanted to share my experience on the forum too.

Everything was somehow working (the app amount of errors when manipulating files is really on the heavy side, but that's a different story); but tonight after a windows update reboot, the app started like if I just installed it.

I have the portable install on my drive D; although the app is constantly creating data in appdata/roaming on my windows 10 machine; while I assumed that portable means portable... So all the data should live in the directory where the app is located, beside some temp files.

Searching the forum found another post and in that post there is a mention of adding 2 lines in the ini file in the portable folder; although that did nothing for me: the app continue to write to appdata/roaming and does not load the original library and settings.
As you can imagine, wasting a couple of weeks of work in rating, tagging and cataloging files is quite frustrating; I moved to MM5 from iTunes and in 10+ years using iTunes on Windows, I never lost my library or settings.

Hard to say what happened; but even if it was windows "deleting" data (which seems quite unlikely, the app is not even installed, it is in a secondary drive, so technically Windows does not even have registry keys to know where that app files are located), one would expect that there are at least a couple of backup saved on rotation. I looked in the MM5 folder I have on my D drive and I don't see backup files; only what is in the portable folder (which if you copy in the appdata/roaming folder won't work, I tried that too).

I hope that nobody else will have to deal with this; I bought the paid license so it is not like "you got the software for free so don't complain if it does not work"; nor I abused my computer to the point where I broke something. Got another ton of apps running on my Windows machine; and they are just fine working on it; so before blaming the OS or the user I want to be sure that I lay on the table all the info about how did I end up in this state.

If I can't recover the data it means throw 2 weeks of work in the trash and start all over again; hoping that it won't happen again. it means I need to backup manually every day at this point, since you never know when the app may launch with everything wiped out.
Lowlander
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Re: My library is gone; everything reset in the app including the license

Post by Lowlander »

See: https://www.mediamonkey.com/support/kno ... -are-lost/

Searching for mm5.db (include hidden files) should allow you to find the old database you were using.
Peke
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Re: My library is gone; everything reset in the app including the license

Post by Peke »

Hi,
I am so sorry for your experience, but at least lets try to remedy at least some of them

1. Please open support ticket and attach MediaMonkey.ini from portable folder. Creation of files in Roaming usually points that your portable do not act as portable, but as normal version.

2. Not sure what Windows Update was performed, but Early Windows 7/8 -> Windows 10 Updates happen to in many cases deleted whole drives like it was formatted and users lost all their files. Windows 11 encrypts HDD data by default (can be disabled) using unique TPM 2.0 credentials so you can't even get your data back (or you can with much hustle) on hardware failure.

3. MM5 have native backup setup under FIle -> Manage Database so you should not worry about your work.

4. as of
rockisalive wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 3:19 am amount of errors when manipulating files is really on the heavy side
There must be an explanation eg. are they DRM protected files, do any application except iTunes plays/read them normally. Do you have any sample files that always fail, ...
Best regards,
Peke
MediaMonkey Team lead QA/Tech Support guru
Admin of Free MediaMonkey addon Site HappyMonkeying
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rockisalive
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Re: My library is gone; everything reset in the app including the license

Post by rockisalive »

Lowlander wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:53 pm See: https://www.mediamonkey.com/support/kno ... -are-lost/

Searching for mm5.db (include hidden files) should allow you to find the old database you were using.
Thanks; interesting to see that what is in the article does not apply to my case:
Some users have reported occasionally losing their settings or having the database disappear upon restarting MediaMonkey. This can occur if registry and system cleaner apps such as TuneUp, CCleaner, Advanced System Care, or Webroot delete portions of the registry or files that store the MediaMonkey settings or database.

MediaMonkey stores its settings (assuming it’s not run in ‘Portable Mode’) in the Windows registry and the database along with some other settings in your Windows user profile folders (see MediaMonkey settings and database locations).
I don't have any registry cleaning apps installed (they are garbage BTW), nor tuning apps or similar. Beside the antivirus and the windows defender app, nothing else has been installed. Also I am using a portable install, which as per quoted text should have no registry entry (yet confused why the app is writing a new DB file in appdata/roaming even if I have the portable version).

I will try to replace the DB file and see how it goes. Thanks for the link!
rockisalive
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Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2022 1:05 pm

Re: My library is gone; everything reset in the app including the license

Post by rockisalive »

Peke wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:07 pm Hi,
I am so sorry for your experience, but at least lets try to remedy at least some of them

1. Please open support ticket and attach MediaMonkey.ini from portable folder. Creation of files in Roaming usually points that your portable do not act as portable, but as normal version.

2. Not sure what Windows Update was performed, but Early Windows 7/8 -> Windows 10 Updates happen to in many cases deleted whole drives like it was formatted and users lost all their files. Windows 11 encrypts HDD data by default (can be disabled) using unique TPM 2.0 credentials so you can't even get your data back (or you can with much hustle) on hardware failure.

3. MM5 have native backup setup under FIle -> Manage Database so you should not worry about your work.

4. as of
rockisalive wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 3:19 am amount of errors when manipulating files is really on the heavy side
There must be an explanation eg. are they DRM protected files, do any application except iTunes plays/read them normally. Do you have any sample files that always fail, ...
Thanks Peke; I opened a ticket for support yesterday. As far as my ini file, it is blank except the 2 lines suggested in another post:

Code: Select all

[Portable]
IsPortable=1 
The ini file in appdata/roaming instead contains all the settings (which are the default ones sadly, mine are not there)

2: My windows update is the latest from W10 (21H2); I usually update every time a new update is available, to avoid any security vulnerability being left open. The MM5 folder is on drive D; which contains my multimedia library; luckily no damage was done to the actual files; for some reasons only MM5 got into this predicament.

3: I found the backup settings but by default they are turned off on new installation; so I turned it on now clicking the checkmark, and setting it to keep the last 3 backup; but I have none saved currently from my old setup, since I never explicitly turned it on when I started to use the app the first time (I had no clue I had to enable backup) :(

4: I see, so the file type may affect the way in which it is handled by the tag parser? I didn't import the iTunes protected files; the rest are all MP3 with no DRM from iTunes or from my own CDs and online purchases. I can check a file that is always failing and send your way; good suggestion.
Peke
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Re: My library is gone; everything reset in the app including the license

Post by Peke »

Hi,
Hmmmm, very interesting and very uncommon behavior, I suspect that portable INI was not read at all.

Can you please open support ticket, so that we can attack problem more directly.

You really got me interested and determined to get to bottom of this. Simply too many things not adding up correctly.
Best regards,
Peke
MediaMonkey Team lead QA/Tech Support guru
Admin of Free MediaMonkey addon Site HappyMonkeying
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rockisalive
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Re: My library is gone; everything reset in the app including the license

Post by rockisalive »

I am curious to understand what happened too :) Especially to know what to do if that is happening again (or how to avoid to lose any data).

Got a reply on the ticket I filed, the problem is that I cannot just copy the other database over because I have the portable installation and the app is forcefully acting like if I installed it (so it is still reading data from appdata/roaming instead of my directory where the MM5 portable data is).

How do I force the app to behave as it should, since the ini file is already specifying that it should work as portable? Thanks
Barry4679
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Re: My library is gone; everything reset in the app including the license

Post by Barry4679 »

rockisalive wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 1:57 pm Got a reply on the ticket I filed, the problem is that I cannot just copy the other database over because I have the portable installation and the app is forcefully acting like if I installed it (so it is still reading data from appdata/roaming instead of my directory where the MM5 portable data is).

How do I force the app to behave as it should, since the ini file is already specifying that it should work as portable? Thanks
How did you create your "portable" version?

The way it is designed to happen is:
  • you run the MM5 installer, and check the "portable: checkbox, and nominate where you want your installation to reside
  • it installs MM5 into that location, and creates a new database inside that location ... it migrates data from your main MM5 installation, if you have one
  • it also creates an ini file inside that location, and the ini file includes the IsPortable line ... the ini file has all the normal stuff in it, as well as the IsPortable line
It doesn't sound like you did this, ie
rockisalive wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 3:19 am Thanks Peke; I opened a ticket for support yesterday. As far as my ini file, it is blank except the 2 lines suggested in another post:

Code: Select all

[Portable]
IsPortable=1 
The portable install will also create a windows shortcut to start the portable version ... the shortcut tells Windows which version of MM5 that you are running, which ensure that it start using the correct inifile.
rockisalive wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 1:57 pm I am curious to understand what happened too :) Especially to know what to do if that is happening again (or how to avoid to lose any data).
In MM5 go to File>Manage Database ... Turn on Scheduled backups ... it is off by default, which isn't helpful IMO ... while you are doing a lot of work, set the schedule to daily ... otherwise have it run on a lesser frequency ... tell it how many backups to retain when it does its housekeeping ...It have mine set to weekly and 5 copies.
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Andre_H
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Re: My library is gone; everything reset in the app including the license

Post by Andre_H »

@Devs (and without any malicious joy): Another case of "harm and user frustration that could have been avoided" if backups were enabled by default! Already discussed here: https://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewt ... 26#p499626

Put at least clear information about the feature in the installation routine, possibly an option to activate it there. Apparently a number of users don't even know about this function!
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Lowlander
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Re: My library is gone; everything reset in the app including the license

Post by Lowlander »

If you had a Portable Install and currently it's acting as a regular install it may be that you didn't tick Portable Install in the installer in one of the upgrades. You'll need to make sure that each update you install you specify that it needs to be installed as Portable Install.

The database isn't lost in these scenarios (MediaMonkey is looking for it in the wrong place), so a backup isn't needed in this scenario.
rockisalive
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Re: My library is gone; everything reset in the app including the license

Post by rockisalive »

Barry4679 wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 9:24 pm How did you create your "portable" version?

The way it is designed to happen is:
  • you run the MM5 installer, and check the "portable: checkbox, and nominate where you want your installation to reside
  • it installs MM5 into that location, and creates a new database inside that location ... it migrates data from your main MM5 installation, if you have one
  • it also creates an ini file inside that location, and the ini file includes the IsPortable line ... the ini file has all the normal stuff in it, as well as the IsPortable line
It doesn't sound like you did this, ie

The portable install will also create a windows shortcut to start the portable version ... the shortcut tells Windows which version of MM5 that you are running, which ensure that it start using the correct inifile.

In MM5 go to File>Manage Database ... Turn on Scheduled backups ... it is off by default, which isn't helpful IMO ... while you are doing a lot of work, set the schedule to daily ... otherwise have it run on a lesser frequency ... tell it how many backups to retain when it does its housekeeping ...It have mine set to weekly and 5 copies.
Honestly I did the install few weeks ago and I don't remember all the steps, but I checked the portable version during the installation; and set it to install on my D drive. I installed the free version to try it, and it was working fine.
Then I bought a license, added the license to my installed app and used it for another 3-5 days or so... It was still working fine as portable.

Then the day I filed this ticket, the preferences, license and DB were like gone (although the DB is still in the portable folder, but prefs and everything in the INI file was gone). Neither the registration nor any other event did cause the "loss" of the settings; it just happened after I rebooted the computer for a standard windows update; as mentioned in my previous posts.
It was working; which makes me think that the issue is not the installation phase but something that happened at a later time.

As far as backup, yeah... I had to look for that option and I was surprised to see it disabled by default. Not much of help if you have a backup feature that need to be turned on explicitly; at least would be great to have a checkmark in the installation of the app, that ask if you want to turn the backup on.
As now it is doing its backups, and I assume that the backup include also the ini file at this point, although it is still acting as if I installed the app and not as if it was a portable install.
rockisalive
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Re: My library is gone; everything reset in the app including the license

Post by rockisalive »

Andre_H wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:33 am @Devs (and without any malicious joy): Another case of "harm and user frustration that could have been avoided" if backups were enabled by default! Already discussed here: https://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewt ... 26#p499626

Put at least clear information about the feature in the installation routine, possibly an option to activate it there. Apparently a number of users don't even know about this function!
I had no idea the option was even there; other apps I use have a "silent" backup going on, and if something fail at launch the app tell you "check your backup folder and restore files if the app won't start correctly".

I think if the devs want to keep the backup off for whatever reason, it would be useful to have an option asking if you want to turn on backup during installation. In that way the user is informed that there is a backup feature AND it is turned off unless they want it on.
rockisalive
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Re: My library is gone; everything reset in the app including the license

Post by rockisalive »

Lowlander wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 11:08 am If you had a Portable Install and currently it's acting as a regular install it may be that you didn't tick Portable Install in the installer in one of the upgrades. You'll need to make sure that each update you install you specify that it needs to be installed as Portable Install.

The database isn't lost in these scenarios (MediaMonkey is looking for it in the wrong place), so a backup isn't needed in this scenario.
I would exclude that scenario, since I clicked the checkmark and since installation I didn't update the app because I have the last build already; so there is no upgrade path at this point.

While the DB is still there (in the portable folder), the ini file was wiped clean; it was empty when I opened it after noticing that the app was asking me for the license again and there was nothing in the library (prompted me to add files to the library, as it does on first launch after installation); so something wiped the ini file somehow, removing preferences and everything else I set up.
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