Level Track Volume - I Just don't Get It

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genegraham
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 1:09 am

Level Track Volume - I Just don't Get It

Post by genegraham »

Hi,

I've been using MM for some time, and have MM3 now. I decided to take the plunge into track leveling, as I'm tired of adjusting the volume on my iPod every couple of songs to even things out. I must confess I just don't get what's going on. I've done it...it took a loooong time to go through my collection. But, I still have what I would consider "uneven" playback volume. If I look at the "Track Volume" field, the values range from -12.5dB to +18.8dB (followed by one tune at +64.8dB and a few with "!" as the volume).

The information in Help is nil. I've set the leveling to 89dB, per track. I've also set it to "Only analyze tracks with unknown leveling adjustment." I have no idea what MM is actually doing. Also, if I tell it to level tracks, it seems to want to re-do the entire library, even though I've selected the "only analyze...etc..." option (see above). My feeling is that MM is actually ignoring me and doing nothing at all except wasting my time. Probably not true, but with the time invested I'm very confused and disappointed with the results.

Can anyone tell me how to properly level track volume, what those settings really mean, what the "Track volume" field is telling me, and why my results don't seem worth the time spent fussing over my collection?

Thanks!
Teknojnky
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Post by Teknojnky »

These pages and some of their links can explain it much better than trying to post some long reply.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replay_Gain
http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php ... Replaygain

and for even more info

http://www.google.com/search?q=replay+gain
genegraham
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 1:09 am

Post by genegraham »

Thanks for the reply Teknojnky, I appreciate the help understanding some of the issues...but...

I'm still not clear on MM3's implementation of track leveling. Why do my tracks still seem "unlevel?" Why does MM3 still insist on leveling every track (including already-leveled tracks) even when I've told it to skip tracks that are already analyzed?

Further help is appreciated...
Joker

Re: Level Track Volume - I Just don't Get It

Post by Joker »

Hey genegraham -- From what I understand, the Track Volume system operates as follows: When you tell MM to "Analyze Volume" of your MP3s, it checks against your Target Volume Level preset (MMs default is 89db) and adds the resulting measurement to the MP3s TAG -- it won't actually change the volume of your MP3 files. Then, once you enable the "Level Playback Volume" option within MM, it will automatically adjust the output volume according to the MP3 Track Volume TAG. This should eliminate "unlevel" track volumes when playing your MP3 collection in MM.

However, since all that "Analyze Volume" does is add the Track Volume TAG to the MP3, it means all your MP3s will still be "unlevel" if you burn them to a CD, or use them in an MP3 player (unless that player adjusts its own volume according to the MP3 TAG, as MM does).

What I've done with my collection is "Level Track Volume", which permanently adjusts the volume of each MP3 -- so now my whole collection the same volume, whether I use them in MM, Winamp or an MP3 Player. The only problem I have now is, what the best Target Volume Level to use. I think maybe 89db is too low, when compared to modern radio broadcast volumes and CD production volume (the loudness war sucks)... I think I'll try going to 95db.

I hope I've answered some questions for you at least, genegraham, and haven't told you a bunch of stuff you already know!
the.funky.boi

Re: Level Track Volume - I Just don't Get It

Post by the.funky.boi »

thanks joker..i am also trying to figure this out myself and u have been a great help! thanks
Scooter
Posts: 333
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 8:52 pm
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Re: Level Track Volume - I Just don't Get It

Post by Scooter »

When adding a CD, I audably check the sound loudness and if it sounds too low, will use a wave editor like Gold Wave to check 2-3 tracks. I'll boost to 0db (100%), so the very loudest portion of the CD track tops out at 0db. Bear in mind that this could be a single cymbal note in the whole track. I often find that by adding a slight, and I mean very slight, form of compression, the track sounds better, or specifically more like the other tracks in my library.

I don't use track leveling and do it all manually.
Regards,

Scooter
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Since 2006

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tdroski

Re: Level Track Volume - I Just don't Get It

Post by tdroski »

MM doesn't change the tags in the mp3's. It creates offset db gain values only in the MM.DB file. This Normalize Track field can be found in the Songs Table of the MM.DB database using SQLite. In other words, your MP3's and tags are not altered when using Volume Analyze.

They are permanently altered when using Level Track Volume.
nohitter151
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Re: Level Track Volume - I Just don't Get It

Post by nohitter151 »

tdroski wrote:MM doesn't change the tags in the mp3's. It creates offset db gain values only in the MM.DB file. This Normalize Track field can be found in the Songs Table of the MM.DB database using SQLite. In other words, your MP3's and tags are not altered when using Volume Analyze.

They are permanently altered when using Level Track Volume.
Actually, according to the MM help file (and my own testing) tags are saved to the mp3 for volume analyzing.

MM Help Content wrote:RVA2, RGAD, TXXX:replaygain_track_gain, replaygain_track_peak, replaygain_album_gain
MediaMonkey user since 2006
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Lowlander
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Re: Level Track Volume - I Just don't Get It

Post by Lowlander »

They certainly are as my other installs read them.
redtannoy
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Re: Level Track Volume - I Just don't Get It

Post by redtannoy »

I have just followed the instructions word-4-word to "Level Track Volume" , all my tracks (80) have Track Volume values. I then burned to a CD, but have the same as I had b4, major imbalance !

What am I doing wrong ?
Lowlander
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Re: Level Track Volume - I Just don't Get It

Post by Lowlander »

Different volume levels can be perceived for example when some tracks have soft segments, the loud segments might sound louder than the should.

Did you enable volume leveling during the burning of the disc? Did you burn an Audio or Data CD?
Guest

Re: Level Track Volume - I Just don't Get It

Post by Guest »

Lowlander wrote:Different volume levels can be perceived for example when some tracks have soft segments, the loud segments might sound louder than the should.

Did you enable volume leveling during the burning of the disc? Did you burn an Audio or Data CD?

Hi Lowlander,

I burned an audio disc. I had levelled the volume of all the tracks in one Playlist. Is there somewhere else that I have to enable volume levelling during burning ?

Any help would be much appreciated, I must be missing something simple.

Regards
redtannoy
Lowlander
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Re: Level Track Volume - I Just don't Get It

Post by Lowlander »

The third screen where you confirm the Audio CD Tracks you can enable Level Volume at the bottom.
redtannoy1945

Re: Level Track Volume - I Just don't Get It

Post by redtannoy1945 »

Lowlander wrote:The third screen where you confirm the Audio CD Tracks you can enable Level Volume at the bottom.
Thanks Lowlander,

I will have a look at that.

Regards
redtannoy
MusicKing
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Re: Level Track Volume - I Just don't Get It

Post by MusicKing »

I am using MMA on my phone and it connects via Bluetooth to my car audio system. When disabling 'Level Volume when syncing audio', the songs sound REALLY soft on both the phone and car audio, but when I enable this option, most songs sound harder, but with terrible quality in the low frequency/bass part. Then I've analyzed all the songs and the values were between -14,7 to +8,7dB, so that's quite a difference there.

Now I'm kind at a loss, what should I do to increase the song volume for the phone and car audio but without destroying the music quality?

1) Use 'Level Track Volume' on all songs? What does it even do?
2) Use 'Level Volume when syncing audio' for MMA on my phone? Same here, what does it even do?
3) A combination of both?
4) Insert your ideas
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