Denon HEOS issues with MM DLNA server

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telecore
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Denon HEOS issues with MM DLNA server

Post by telecore »

I have the MM dlna server working mostly well with HEOS - serving a large library of ripped CD music mostly in ALAC format to multiple receivers and denon home speakers - if I don’t transcode everything to mp3 during playback, HEOS will have an error after every single track completes playing - this causes a long delay between songs - it happens if I force all streaming to ALAC or FLAC or WAV formats - anyone else notice this problem? HEOS supports all those formats - either MM is causing a problem or HEOS isn’t handling the stream or song transition properly - Any thoughts on a solution?
Peke
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Re: Denon HEOS issues with MM4 DLNA server

Post by Peke »

Hi,
Best would be to use latest MM5 viewtopic.php?f=30&t=86639&sd=d and create debug log till the error happens as described at viewtopic.php?f=20&t=69 then compress it and attach to support ticket or post download link here.
Best regards,
Peke
MediaMonkey Team lead QA/Tech Support guru
Admin of Free MediaMonkey addon Site HappyMonkeying
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telecore
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Re: Denon HEOS issues with MM4 DLNA server

Post by telecore »

I tried installing MM5 in portable mode - it does NOT prompt me for the location of the MM4 database upon startup as mentioned in the forums - until I get this to work I cannot try this - can you tell me how to get MM5 to import the MM4 database?
Peke
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Re: Denon HEOS issues with MM4 DLNA server

Post by Peke »

Hi,
If you only have MM4 Portable installed MM5 can't know location of DB. Here are the manual steps (correct paths to comply with your enviroment):
1. Close all MM (Check Task manager if needed)
2. Copy c:\PortableMM4\Portable\MM.DB to c:\PortableMM5\Portable\MM5.DB (closely watch filenames as it changes from MM.DB -> MM5.DB)
3. Start MM5

NOTE: if for some reason you have installed normal MM4 version and first start of MM5 do not prompt you for DB import location of MM.DB is c:\Users\<YOUR USERNAME>\Appdata\Roaming\MediaMonkey\MM.DB.

Quick access to that folder is:
1. Open file explorer
2. In address bar paste "%APPDATA%\MediaMonkey" -> press enter

Result should be that folder path immediately change to "C:\Users\<YOUR USERNAME>\AppData\Roaming\MediaMonkey" and then you can easily copy MM.DB to MM5.DB in your portable folder.
Best regards,
Peke
MediaMonkey Team lead QA/Tech Support guru
Admin of Free MediaMonkey addon Site HappyMonkeying
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telecore
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Re: Denon HEOS issues with MM4 DLNA server

Post by telecore »

Thanks - I actually figured out copying the MM.DB to MM5.DB before I left for work and did some quick MM5 testing - it appeared during my brief time testing, that the MM5 behavior is the same as the MM4 behavior - I have to transcode everything to MP3 to get HEOS to work smoothly. If I learn anything else, I will update -
Peke
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Re: Denon HEOS issues with MM4 DLNA server

Post by Peke »

Hi,
Then the HEOS application is bottleneck and from what I read at https://denon.custhelp.com/app/answers/ ... /related/1 high bit rate is almost non existing.
Best regards,
Peke
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Admin of Free MediaMonkey addon Site HappyMonkeying
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Snofru
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Re: Denon HEOS issues with MM4 DLNA server

Post by Snofru »

Peke wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 2:46 pmIf you only have MM4 Portable installed MM5 can't know location of DB.
It works as long as you have a shortcut for MM4 on your Desktop.
MMW Version 5.1.0.2827 Portable
Samsung Galaxy S23+, S9 and Sony NW-A105 with MMA Beta 2.0.0.1156
telecore
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Re: Denon HEOS issues with MM4 DLNA server

Post by telecore »

Peke wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 7:50 pm Hi,
Then the HEOS application is bottleneck and from what I read at https://denon.custhelp.com/app/answers/ ... /related/1 high bit rate is almost non existing.
Denon/HEOS doesn't have a bottleneck, but after some more testing, I think they may have a minor playback issue with the MM DLNA server. I was able to test another DLNA client in a Panasonic UHD Blu-Ray player with the MM DLNA server and it was able to play back MP3, ALAC (CD rips from iTunes) and M4A(aac-lc from iTunes store) files with no issues.

The Denon equipment supports all of those formats but has some issues with MM DLNA if the format is not mp3. The main problem is that after playing an ALAC (or FLAC track), there is a 20 second delay followed by an error message "Unable to Play Media - Please try again later" before playing the next track. The next track will eventually play, but the delay is the problem. Also, M4A(aac-lc) files do not seem to be able to play to Denon via MM DLNA at all.

So, transcoding M4A to ALAC doesn't solve the problem, and transcoding M4A+ALAC to FLAC doesn't work either; the only solution is transcoding M4A+ALAC to MP3. Then, there is no delay/error in playback. I don't like the idea of downgrading from lossless ALAC to MP3 or creating a 2nd generation, lossy M4A to MP3 re-encode, but converting to MP3/320 kbps (insane quality), I have not noticed a difference.

Denon equipment does play MP3,ALAC and M4A flawlessly from iTunes via airplay 2 protocol. It is possible to export MM4 into the iTunes.xml file, then import into iTunes. This allows all MM playlists to be present in iTunes, but it makes for extra work every time something changes in MM to clean up iTunes then re-import the xml file. My preference would be to only use MM4, because it is my primary and preferred music organizer, and use the MM DLNA server with the HEOS app and skip iTunes.

If I learn anything else, I will make an additional post.
Lowlander
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Re: Denon HEOS issues with MM4 DLNA server

Post by Lowlander »

AirPlay is not the same as DLNA, so it's possible that it's implemented well for AirPlay by Denon, but not for DLNA.

You can capture this in a debug log (step 4b) and attach the log to a Support Ticket: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=69 (I would do this with MMW5 though: viewtopic.php?f=30&t=86643).

Have you tried Auto-Conversion to WAV as a work-around?
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Re: Denon HEOS issues with MM4 DLNA server

Post by Peke »

telecore wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:58 pm I think they may have a minor playback issue with the MM DLNA server
That is why I told you there is a bottleneck.

Try this plugin viewtopic.php?t=9284 with airport/airplay
Best regards,
Peke
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Admin of Free MediaMonkey addon Site HappyMonkeying
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telecore
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Re: Denon HEOS issues with MM4 DLNA server

Post by telecore »

Lowlander wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 5:04 pm AirPlay is not the same as DLNA, so it's possible that it's implemented well for AirPlay by Denon, but not for DLNA.

Have you tried Auto-Conversion to WAV as a work-around?
I do realize Airplay is a totally separate case

I did try WAV and FLAC - they both have the 20s delay+error problem:

1 correction:
It appears that any M4A either containing ALAC or AAC-LC (with no transcoding) both result in "Playback Error Unsupported Format" so they don't even play.

I'll have to try to capture a debug log when I get more time - first I have to learn the process...
Lowlander
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Re: Denon HEOS issues with MM4 DLNA server

Post by Lowlander »

It's easy, run DBGView then run debug version of MM. Then just reproduce any problem you have and DBGView will capture everything that's happening.
telecore
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Re: Denon HEOS issues with MM4 DLNA server

Post by telecore »

Peke wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 7:05 pm
telecore wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:58 pm I think they may have a minor playback issue with the MM DLNA server
That is why I told you there is a bottleneck.

Try this plugin viewtopic.php?t=9284 with airport/airplay
Thanks for the reply - I actually have been running MM4 + Airfoil for a number of years, so I do have an airplay solution for MM, but using the MM export to iTunes + running iTunes+remote has been my preferred Airplay method - especially since Airplay 2 came out and since Airfoil started having problems capturing the audio directly out of MM (now you have to get system audio as the source) and also Airfoil for Windows is now obsolete. That plug-in looks pretty old.

At this point, I was interested in trying to stay within the MM ecosystem for organizing, making playlists, syncing devices and whole house playing via DLNA. I am going to keep trying and may be able to send a log file some time in the future, but I have only so much time to work on this.
Peke
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Re: Denon HEOS issues with MM4 DLNA server

Post by Peke »

telecore wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 8:33 pm I am going to keep trying and may be able to send a log file some time in the future, but I have only so much time to work on this.
Great, take your time we will not going anywhere, so if you find any new evidence observation please share.
Best regards,
Peke
MediaMonkey Team lead QA/Tech Support guru
Admin of Free MediaMonkey addon Site HappyMonkeying
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telecore
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Re: Denon HEOS issues with MM4 DLNA server

Post by telecore »

I created a debug folder and installed MM4 debug version in portable mode. I then copied MM.DB and some other files to match the setup of the non-debug version. Ran some tests with Dbgview and uploaded logs with a ticket. The behavior with the debug version and debugView was not exactly the same as I was seeing before, but some of the same errors occurred. For the test, transcoding everything to MP3 did not work for some reason, but it seemed to work well before. I hope the log files help. I can create some more in the next few days but have to stop for now. Thanks.
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