New iPod "Classic" Compatibility

Big_Berny · Post by **Big_Berny** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:13 am

Hi,
AFAIK it's no problem to update to 1.0.1 because it's already some days old and the crackers shurely already used the new firmware.

Big_Berny

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:53 pm

Ok, made the update (and hope...)

Michael

TwiztidSinz · Post by **TwiztidSinz** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:17 pm

Michael Vogel wrote:When a running plugin be available, please tell us, if also the 1.0.1 firmware of the new ipod classic will be supported - I'm not sure to do a firmware update without the knowledge if the Mediamonkey will run with it...

If the new firmware (1.0.1 I think?) was released AFTER Sept 01, 2007 then it will most likely add the SHA-1 hash in the database which will mean you have to use iTunes to sync. If it was put out before Sept. 01, 2007 then you should be all set.

I'm not sure when MediaMonkey or any players will be updated to work with the new iPod firmware, but I'm pretty sure there will be an announcement made.

Tankred · Post by **Tankred** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:24 pm

It makes no difference if you have firmware 1.0.0 or 1.0.1 on your iPod. No matter which version you have on your player, if the player hardware is a new one (i.e. iPod Classic or Nano 3rd Gen) you cannot synchronize it with MM - at the moment. The release date of the firmware isn't relevant, too.

TwiztidSinz · Post by **TwiztidSinz** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:39 pm

It has to be the firmware because hardware wouldn't and couldn't change the database. The firmware is what controls the hardware in the iPod, adds new features and patches exploits.

Post by **Peke** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 4:13 pm

Direct Example is RockBox Firmware that even add FLAC support to iPod.

Tankred · Post by **Tankred** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 4:20 pm

As there are no new iPods that can be synchronized without problems, a discussion about firmware updates is unnecessary and completely useless.

Or do you claim that there are new iPods on the market that actually synchronize perfectly with alternatives to iTunes, because they have an old firmware version installed?

If yes, I doubt it unless you prove it.

I have seen and tested several new iPod models with any kind of firmware and according to the issue that is currently discussed in this thread, nothing made a difference.

I must add, jiri can make a difference: http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewto ... highlight=

TwiztidSinz · Post by **TwiztidSinz** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 6:59 pm

I disagree... I think that the topic of firmware is EXACTLY what this whole problem is about.
The iPod isn't magic, it NEEDS software to read and write to the database. It cannot be done by hardware.
If you took the new iPod hardware, wrote your own firmware to it (like Rockbox) you would be able to use the new iPod with any media player that supported the Rockbox firmware. There would be no more SHA-1 hash.

Think of a Human Body as Hardware, and a Brain as the Firmware.
The body (hardware) cannot do much on its own, it needs a brain (firmware) to interpret and give instructions.

alveryx · Post by **alveryx** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:03 pm

The topic has nothing to do with firmware. There is no other firmware that runs on the iPod Classic or new Nanos besides the default firmware. Even the updated version of the firmware only provided bug fixes, it did not change the database format. So the problem is exclusive to that set of hardware... being that there is currently no other firmware. It's like using different names for the same thing, it makes no difference anyways.

TwiztidSinz · Post by **TwiztidSinz** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:04 pm

But how does the hardware read the database?
How does the hardware know what the database is missing?
or how does the hardware know what the hash should be?

F I R M W A R E !

Tankred · Post by **Tankred** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:09 am

And how does this help? Do you write us a new firmware that hacks away all our problems? Go on, you're welcome to do it...

Big_Berny · Post by **Big_Berny** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 5:40 am

By the way: Winamp 5.5 Beta already has some working ipod-plugings (the official one and ml_ipod). So I'm confident that it will also work with MediaMonkey soon.

Big_Berny

SuperflyTNTdaShizzle · Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:14 am

TwiztidSinz wrote:But how does the hardware read the database?
How does the hardware know what the database is missing?
or how does the hardware know what the hash should be?

F I R M W A R E !

What he was saying is the syncing issue has nothing to do with the firmware upgrade. Of course the firmware reads the database, but the firmware upgrade just fixes other bugs. The problem is the database was changed for the ipod classic, (and I imagine the new nanos), to accomodate album art and I think there are new sorting options, so the ORIGINAL firmware for the classic didn't work with MM either. I imagine if it was possible to roll back to the 5g firmware it would sync, but I doubt that would work because the hardware architecture has changed also.

emalvick · Post by **emalvick** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:29 am

I'm not sure how much all your arguing is doing... but to add to the analogy.

While the firmware is the brain of the operation, the brain can only work with what hardware it has. You can't just put any firmware into any device. The firmware has to interact with what it has.

You can't just separate the two. If it was that easy, there wouldn't be issues with the new devices.

TwiztidSinz · Post by **TwiztidSinz** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:10 pm

SuperflyTNTdaShizzle wrote:I imagine if it was possible to roll back to the 5g firmware it would sync, but I doubt that would work because the hardware architecture has changed also.

Which is my point: Its the FIRMWARE that is the issue with the new iPods, not the hardware.
If the firmware for the 5th gen worked with the Classic, then there would be no issues. But the hardware is different, so the firmware would have to be different as well to reflect the changes to the hardware.

The fact is, it's the firmware that is adding the SHA-1 hash to the iPod Database.
The new iPods called 'Classic' use the new firmware with the SHA-1 hash.
The Firmware on the Classic isnt the same as the Firmware on the 5th Gen, BUT they can be made to do the same things (hardware permitting -- Firmware will not turn a first gen into an iPod video). Just because an iPod currently doesnt lock the database with a SHA-1 hash doesn't mean its impossible for it to do so later because it is controlled by the firmware. All apple would have to do is rebuild the firmware for the 5th Gen iPod to include the SHA-1 hash and then then 5th Gen, which previously was working, now no longer works.

@Tankred: Yes a new firmware would solve all the problems.. e.g. RockBox. And no, I do not write firmware and if I did I wouldn't for a product I do not own.

I greatly dislike apple. They are portrayed, and tend to be, elitist snobs. Look at the Mac switch commercials. Look at them saying 'Macs are more secure than PCs' which is completely false - Less virus' sure, but thats because there are less people trying to hack and exploit the mac, not because it is not more secure. And them pulling things like this just adds to why I will never own an Apple product.
I'm not saying 'Mac sucks and PC rules', Microsoft pulls just as much BS as Apple, but they aren't elitists about it.

New iPod "Classic" Compatibility

What mp3 player do you use?

Firmware

I think you're missing the point!

Re: I think you're missing the point!